Duck Dynasty Controversy: 5 Things You Need to Know

It's the controversy that keeps on coming — so make sure you're up to date

  • Share
  • Read Later
Art Streiber

Start trying to catch up on the Duck Dynasty controversy now and you might not finish reading till 2014 — and, by that point, at the rate things are going, you’ll already be behind on the news again. The five days since A&E announced on Dec. 18 that Phil Robertson, patriarch of the hit reality-TV family, would be suspended for anti-gay remarks he made in an interview with GQ have been chock-a-block with Duck drama.

(BACKGROUNDHow a tight-knit family of godly duck hunters shot to reality-TV fame)

So we’ll make it easy for you. Here’s what happened first: Phil Robertson’s comments to GQ‘s Drew Magary (for example: “Start with homosexual behavior and just morph out from there. Bestiality, sleeping around with this woman and that woman and that woman and those men…”) led the network that runs his show to place him “under hiatus from filming indefinitely. The suspension quickly led to fan outcry and free-speech defenses — even though, as TIME’s James Poniewozik has pointed out, the First Amendment does not extend to a right to be on TV.

And here’s what you need to know now:

Robertson’s not apologizing. Robertson — who has made public remarks to the same effect in the past, but never with the same amount of notice — responded to what’s been going on, in a speech at his church in West Monroe, La., by reiterating his belief that homosexuality is a sin.

Meanwhile, the rest of what he said is coming under fire. Gay people weren’t the only subjects of Robertson’s insights in the GQ piece and, though those comments were the ones that initially got him in trouble, the rest of the profile has also been the topic of criticism — specifically his comments on race. For example, in the New York Times, Charles Blow drew attention to Robertson’s obelief that black workers in Jim Crow-era Louisiana were happier than African-Americans are now. Other potentially controversial topics in the GQ piece that have not yet received media scrutiny include health insurance and the separation of church and state.

Politicians are getting involved. Figures like Sarah Palin, Ted Cruz and Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal have rushed to publicly defend Phil Robertson in order to demonstrate their conservative bona fides. The lieutenant governor of Louisiana, Jay Dardenne, also said that the show is important to the state’s economy, and that the state could help the family stay on TV even if A&E decides to pull the plug. Meanwhile, a Georgia sheriff whose department has worked with the network on Beyond Scared Straight has said that he no longer wants anything to do with A&E.

But DD may actually get a boost from the controversy. The old adage that there’s no such thing as bad publicity is playing out for the Robertson clan. The restaurant chain Cracker Barrel reversed a decision to pull Duck Dynasty products from its shelves, citing the fact that fans were offended by that decision. The Duck Dynasty Christmas album, Duck the Halls, debuted at No. 1 in November and is projected to get a major sales bump this week. In addition, news outlets have noticed that Walmart’s website is sold out of many Duck Dynasty items.

And the future of the show isn’t actually all that murky. The rest of the Duck Dynasty clan spoke out the day after the controversy erupted, defending Phil and implying that they might not be willing to move forward with the show — which is a massive hit for the network — if he were excluded, and the Daily Mail reports that the family believes the whole GQ interview may have been a set-up to trap Phil. But they might not have a choice about whether to continue with the show: an unnamed source tells Fox that the family may be contractually required to continue filming until the network pulls the plug (the show’s contracts were just reupped in August, for a reported $200,000 per episode for the family). A few smaller networks have told TMZ they’d be eager to grab the show if A&E does decide to cancel. In the mean time, fans who haven’t been following the news might not even be able to tell anything’s going on: Entertainment Weekly has reported that 90 percent of the season’s episodes and have already been shot and contain Phil, and that they won’t be edited to exclude him. As of now, the show will return to the network on Jan. 15, as scheduled — and it’s conceivable that the indefinite hiatus may end in time for everything that has gone on this week to remain out of the camera’s sights. With Christmas just two days away, the Duck scandal may already be quieting.

165 comments
so_what
so_what

I think everyone is allowed their own opinion. period.

aristotle_dude
aristotle_dude

I pity bullies like MollyCruz who seem to be obsessed with straight people like me and assume that I must be gay but in denial. Sorry but I don't really much like men in general because I found that my friends in school could not be trusted to come to my aid or be trusted with secrets. Women have been trustworthy lovers and friends for me.


Why do gays think that anyone who does not enthusiastically support them harbour gay feelings in secret? I don't hate gays, I just have seen through their bullshit because of what I've been through. They don't deserve my support.


I believe in free speech and will enthusiastically stand up against people who bully immigrants like me.

MollyCruz
MollyCruz

An old backwoods man made some idiotic comments on matters about which he knows little, in fact. I would have expected worse had I been listening, but I wasn't. Nor should he ever had been given that kind of challenge to reason, any more than if he'd been asked to explain relativity. That's not why people watch the program, and everybody knows how those guys feel. If anything, he's shaming his culture, but not really saying anything new or worth repeating. 


THE PRESS having pumped it up along with a few other seamy personal stories makes it more likely that the bloody stuff that's actually happening around the world can stay in the background. (Israel dropped sixteen bombs on Gaza yesterday in retaliation for an Israeli death; against the Geneva Convention, but hey; who's watching?)


Meanwhile, he was within his civil rights to speak. And, folks, that's a Good Thing. We start punishing people, it's a slippery slope; already on its way when when whistle blowers lose their jobs and  journalists are jailed for not revealing their sources. We'll all survive these crude remarks, I'm sure;  but Freedom of Speech, Oh yes!  Without it, we're SUNK.

ZonaVizard
ZonaVizard

Who says all gay sex is anus sex? 

holden.tom
holden.tom

I just want to know why Christians are so eager to discuss gay sex and how wrong it is and the fact that it's a sin quoted in the bible...yeah, there are tons of sins stated in the Bible, pick one of those and talk about it...you know murder, adultery, slavery, rape, theft etc...what's the fascination with gays, homosexuality, gay sex, gay marriage? That's kinda weird if you ask me. I don't agree with the act of gay sex, but I don't have any desire to bring it up and start talkin about it either. I think I would come up with a million things to discuss before I landed on homosexuality, but who am I to judge straight men wanting to discuss gay sex? Or  Phils comment  "it seems like, to me, a vagina—as a man—would be more desirable than a man’s anus" You just figured that out??? That is probably something you should have thought about when you were about 12 or 13 trying to figure out sex. 

Ranger165
Ranger165

Okay, now let's be reasonable.  You've got some redneck nitwit who doesn't like gays; no biggie.  What bothers me is the idea, after fifty-odd years as a hunter and fisherman, that hunters are all redneck nitwits as depicted on DD.  I'll admit to never having been able to watch an entire episode of DD, but if you can stand it, go for it. 

coloradobob1976
coloradobob1976

Whats REALLY amazing is people who care what entertainers say about anything and believe it. He's entitled to his beliefs, watch it for entertainment, or turn the dang thing off. If I want to learn about the duck call business, I'll ask him. If I want to learn about Gays, I'll ask someone else.  If I want to ask about God, I'll ask neither one. 'Nuff said.

boutthat
boutthat

what's funny to me is that this guy has spent so much time thinking about a mans anus

aristotle_dude
aristotle_dude

Here is the really funny thing. People who claim to not believe in god or sin are getting upset when we call lust a sin. We are not even singling out just one particular type of lust. All lust is a sin. What is even more funny is that those same people get upset when two sins are equated like adultery and murder. God considers all sin to separate man from god. There is no hierarchy of sin when it comes to whether you go to hell or not. They are all equal in that sense. One could argue that some have more of an effect on other people but there is no such thing as a victimless sin because you too can be your own victim.


What is even funnier is when those atheists start trying to rank those sins that they don't even believe in and attack others by pointing out the sins of politicians.


Then you have those liberal "good church people" who either completely ignore that homosexual lust is a sin as any other form of lust or try suggest that there are different levels of sin. The bible does not talk about ranking of sin when it comes to separating us from god. All sin separates us from god. You cannot get by being a "sunday only" christian and you cannot go around picking and choosing what to believe from god's word. Some things such as the eating of pork no longer apply because they were dietary laws to protect the jews from food borne illness and to separate them culturally from other people. The morality laws still apply and should be followed by christian under the new covenant. You should not squander your freedom by continuing to do evil just because you have been saved.


We are called to not stone anyone because of Jesus's cast the first stone example but that does not mean that we should be permissive of sin in our community and not challenge fellow believers when we see them in error. We need to be firm in our convictions and ignore the approval or disapproval of the worldly and ungodly. Do not conform to this world.

N!cole
N!cole

So here's the 2 quotes that started all of this:

“It seems like, to me, a vagina—as a man—would be more desirable than a man’s anus. That’s just me. I’m just thinking: There’s more there! She’s got more to offer. I mean, come on, dudes! You know what I’m saying? But hey, sin: It’s not logical, my man. It’s just not logical.” - Phil Robertson

---------Not pleasant, but not insanely offensive or hateful----------

“Start with homosexual behavior and just morph out from there. Bestiality, sleeping around with this woman and that woman and that woman and those men,” he says. Then he paraphrases Corinthians: “Don’t be deceived. Neither the adulterers, the idolaters, the male prostitutes, the homosexual offenders, the greedy, the drunkards, the slanderers, the swindlers—they won’t inherit the kingdom of God. Don’t deceive yourself. It’s not right.”  - Phil Robertson

----------Once again, not pleasant, but not a hate crime.----------

Sounds like your standard bible thumper to me

N!cole
N!cole

I didn't read the whole gq interview, but I skimmed over the whole thing and I'm not really sure what everyone is so worked up about. Is there a single gay person who is offended that the guy from duck dynasty doesn't approve of homosexuality? He isn't someone in a position of power who can abuse anyone's rights, he's a bible thumping redneck who believes bible thumping redneck things. Reminds me of Charlie Sheen; for years we pay him to be a womanizing druggy, then get all horrified that he actually is one. Don't hate the man, don't defend him, and don't kick him off his show for being exactly what we always knew he was.

Realworldnonfantasyland
Realworldnonfantasyland

5 Things You need to know:

1) Who Cares what peoples opinions are on anything

2) Who Cares what people who are supposed to be dumb on TV's opinions are on anything

3) Whose worst, the person who said it in front of 100 people, or the news organizations who make the guy into a horrible monster in front of the world for the sole purpose of getting people onto their websites

4) This isn't a story, people are bored and there is nothing to talk about

5) People who make Mountains out of Mole Hills will likely never get anywhere good in life.  People who make Mole hills out of Mountains will be the ones who will realize that everything like this in all honestly has no zero effect on their lives, thus will be able to get through life without worry about what some entertainer who would honestly care less if he saw you in person thought about religion

aristotle_dude
aristotle_dude

Does anyone remember Alexander the Great? He was gay and he was a tyrant who killed hundreds of thousands of people through crucifixion just because they lived in cities that resisted his armies. He also had a wife that he treated horribly because he was not comfortable with himself.


So he did the following out of insecurity:

Killed thousands by nailing them to a cross.

Displayed misogynist behaviour towards his wife.

Partook in other ridiculous acts of macho bravado like bullying and/or killing his own soldiers.


Machoism, bullying, mass murder and misogyny. Wonderful character traits eh?


Today, you can find similar traits in your average schoolyard bully or on a prison yard.

LuciusDark
LuciusDark

Nothing new here. Phil Robertson is an employee of A&E and in the United States the employer can restrict or fire you for any comments you make at work or in public. It's happened to thousands of other less famous people and is nothing special. Change the law if you don't think its fair.

dougau
dougau

Hate filled, panicked homos are now trying to spin this into a racist story, even bigger fail!

bigflash
bigflash

Amongst other things, I would say Phil is a Hypocrite.

It is in the B-i-b-l-e.

In 1 Corinthians 11:14 the Bible says:

Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?


According to this verse:

  • It is a shame for a man to have long hair
  • That nature teaches us that a man having long hair is shameful 

 http://brucegerencser.net/2013/10/is-it-a-sin-for-a-man-to-have-long-hair/

This is good:

FreeSpeech97
FreeSpeech97

Christians do 'pick' on other sins... That's why crimes such as murder, rape and polygamy are illegal and crimes such as abortion and gay mairrage used to be illegal. There is currently a huge push to recriminilize these crimes, especially abortion. As for DD, this is America where freedom of religion should always prevail over political correctness, which it did in this case. Every citizen of this country is guaranteed the right of free speech but it seems that gays think they are guaranteed the right of everyone agreeing with them?

tom.litton
tom.litton

@coloradobob1976TV influences perceptions and perceptions influences reality.


If you want to change a society that is tolerant to homosexuals (or other races or women), then a good place to start is encouraging things that show that behavior on TV and discouraging those that don't.

aztecian
aztecian

@boutthatwhat's really going to freak old Phil out is when science and medicine invent and implant a genetically engineered mangina with a uterus capable of carrying a fetus to full term.  Gay men with manginas will be all the rage and bible thumpers will be spinning out of control. 

tom.litton
tom.litton

@aristotle_dudeSo what you are saying is the homosexuals should have the same rights and responsibilities that heterosexuals have under God and man, including the right to marry and have kids?

MollyCruz
MollyCruz

@aristotle_dude NO, you are not exempt from the admonition, and you may not throw that stone. That's exactly what the phrase means. You are wrong to judge another; and the more you judge, the more suspect your motives. You want to crush the homosexual within yourself; that's your problem, and you'll never admit it. Sins were warnings: 'bad path this way; much pain in store for you'. These rules were arrived at by living for generations and sorting it all out; as people moved together in great numbers and faced the health consequences. We stomped the venereal diseases out and for a while, people had liberated sex lives; to no one's discontent, until more serious diseases came along. It was always about germs, see? 

Justwanttocomment
Justwanttocomment

What many don't understand is that his comments were not personal.

God expects his people to be white as fresh snow. Imagine that you have a garment that is white. Whether you spill a bottle of red fingernail polish on it or just a couple of dribbles of coffee on it... While one (the polish) may seem more drastic and sensationalistic, BOTH have the same effect: the garment is no longer white. So while to some, beastiality is more heinous than homosexuality, to those who believe that Christians have an obligation to take the Bible at its literal word, both sins, along with lying, stealing, hating, etc, create a situation in which you are no longer dealing with a purely-colored garment.

To those who believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God, when we say some behavior is a sin, we are not stating a personal opinion about a behavior or a person who engages in that behavior. We are saying that based on our best judgment, when trying to objectively read what God is telling us in the Bible, we have concluded that specific things are not in line with what he wants us to do... Aka, sin. If we take our faith seriously, it is VITAL that we be objective. Sometimes objective people will disagree.

Becoming a Christian is like getting magic soap that can wash any stain from the aforementioned garment and make it completely white again, as long as you continue to put the soap to use.

To those who do not believe that God exists or that Christ was who he claimed to be, I am sure it sounds foolish. But to those who have faith, these things are critical.

And as a disclaimer, this is but one of the many facets of Christianity. Generosity, kindness, love... Responsibilities, honor, dignity... There is much more to it than JUST avoiding sin.

Realworldnonfantasyland
Realworldnonfantasyland

@aristotle_dude

------

do not conform to this world

------

Just conform to a book written 2000 years ago by a really really shady organization who used to sell trips to heaven to the poor.  Who come from an area of the world where a lot of men treat their women like 2nd rate citizens.  The same organization who made Jesus this magical creature instead of being honest about him and most likely turned his wife into a prostitute for the rest of time.  Please don't conform to the world that others live in, conform to this world.  Its great

Realworldnonfantasyland
Realworldnonfantasyland

@N!cole Yet somehow the media is able to manufacture a story and get a lot of bored, dumb people to act like this really matters.  Someday the media will act like leaders in making the world a better place,  instead of being  little gossipy 14 year olds

N!cole
N!cole

Did you hear about all those catholic priests? They weren't allowed to follow their natural sexual urges so they became pedofiles.

Realworldnonfantasyland
Realworldnonfantasyland

@aristotle_dude You  find the whole similar trait part, Besides the whole killing thing.  Kind of an odd analogy

DonnieFrierson
DonnieFrierson

@LuciusDark  Actually there is no need to change any laws. He is protected already. I'm shocked so many people don't know the laws of employers. You absolutely can not fire someone due to there religious beliefs , this is the SAME exact law that protects a gay person being fired simply because they are gay or support being gay. You don't have to take my word for it .... you can learn here  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrongful_dismissal    All an attorney would have to do is prove that what Phil said was motivated by religion. Since everything he said is in the bible , i think its a pretty rock solid ... open/close book case.  Now with that said , A&E never said Phil was fired.  "Indefinite hiatus" does not  mean permanent. I know i know tricky words , but that's the way lawyers work. And you can bet your right arm they were consulting with legal council over this decision. I believe you will be seeing Phil come back , and if you don't it will end up in the courts. That is just my prediction.

aristotle_dude
aristotle_dude

@LuciusDark True, but as a company, they are obligated to their shareholders. They should be concerned about not insulting their viewership base or the majority of consumers who buy household goods. Those consumers likely are mostly average people with similar views to that of Phil Robertson.


This stuff should be Business management 101 stuff. Don't insult your customer base and ignore small groups who don't buy your stuff anyway.

holden.tom
holden.tom

@dougau the real victim is the Christian just passing on the bibles message....those gays need to stop acting like victims. If we want to talk about gay sex being gross and a sin that is our right. 

holden.tom
holden.tom

@dougau yeah, no kidding...who are they to think they can have any say in the matter...they are gay, homosexuality is a sin, so they are no longer part of the group that gets to discuss their lifestyle choices.

Realworldnonfantasyland
Realworldnonfantasyland

@dougau Don't blame them, blame the people in the media.  The Media makes Mountains out of mole hills for the sole purpose of getting dumb people to care

aristotle_dude
aristotle_dude

@tom.litton I am not saying anything of the sort. I have no right to redefine what marriage is since the bible already defined marriage as a union between a man and a woman. Gay marriage does not change god's definition or stop making it a sin. Gay marriage is a fiction created by civil governments and has no bearing on god's laws and commandments. What was a sin yesterday is still a sin today and tomorrow.


Why do you believe that the actions of a government or court would change god's mind? Are you really that delusional? If you want, go ahead and create your own religion and your own bible that makes heterosexual sex and marriage a sin and homosexual sex and marriage a blessing but stop trying to change my faith thank you very much. I don't throw stone, I don't carry signs, I don't try to change the rules of other groups so stop trying to force your perverted (changed) morals on me.


The church does not seek to judge the world, god will do that on judgement day. The church does, however have the responsibility to uphold moral standards within the church itself and admonish member of the church who violates those moral standards. This also applies to men who cheat on their wives or wives who cheat on their husbands. Those people are encouraged to either repent or leave the congregation.

dayoldy
dayoldy

@Realworldnonfantasyland
Your comment is just a silly misrepresentation. There is no such organization that did what you suggest. And even if there had been such an organization, an appeal based on the organization "coming from an area of the world where a lot of men treat their women like 2nd rate citizens", is logically fallacious. So some men in some area treat their women poorly?... what in the world does that have to do with the credibility of scripture written over 2000 years ago? And in that regard, the book was actually a compilation of books written over a period of 1600 years by 60 different authors, that both predicted and documented God's interaction with humans and plan of redemption fulfilled in Jesus Christ and his sacrifice. Referring to Jesus as being some "magical creature" isn't honest with anything credible written about him . People believe the Bible because of it's proven authenticity, historical accuracy, fulfilled prophecy, astounding wisdom, & logical cohesiveness. Because of this integrity and the fact that it says to NOT be confomed to this world, makes it compelling.

MollyCruz
MollyCruz

@Realworldnonfantasyland @N!cole It's not really them, I suspect, it's done to distract us from reality, a sad comedy of death unfolding in the Middle East and Africa; thanks to our miserably conceived foreign policies in those regions.

aristotle_dude
aristotle_dude

@N!cole That is rich. So you are now blaming who exactly? Who is the target of the blame game? Blame the pedophile priest themselves. They never should have become priests and all priests should have to marry before becoming ordained. In the early church, priests did marry . Go look it up. The catholic church was afraid of losing property to divorce which is why they discontinued allowing priests to marry. That was a mistake.


Seriously, who is your adversary here? Why are you charging at windmills?

aristotle_dude
aristotle_dude

@Realworldnonfantasyland Are you saying that schoolyard bullies never get into fights where their victim dies? Are you saying that nobody is killed in prisons if they try to fight back against prison rape? Alexander the great probably started out as a schoolyard bully and worked his way up to tyrant king.


Your username is really ironic because you appear to live in a fantasyland where everything is candy canes and lolly pops, where all gay people are nice and unicorns fart rainbows all day.

tom.litton
tom.litton

@DonnieFriersonHe wasn't fired for his religion.  He was fired because he insulted his employers customers.  If he would have said, homosexuality was a sin according to my religion, and nothing else, then there wouldn't have been any consequences.

holden.tom
holden.tom

@DonnieFrierson

Phil also didn't have his first amendment right infringed on because the first amendment does not extend to a right to be on TV...but back to your rock solid case of his comments being motivated by religion and safe because "Everything he said is in the bible"  Ummm, what? No they aren't did you read the article?

“It seems like, to me, a vagina—as a man—would be more desirable than a man’s anus. That’s just me. I’m just thinking: There’s more there! She’s got more to offer. I mean, come on, dudes! You know what I’m saying? But hey, sin: It’s not logical, my man. It’s just not logical.” - What part of that is quoted n the Bible? The "Sin" part?   

NEXT "Start with homosexual behavior and just morph out from there. Bestiality, sleeping around with this woman and that woman and that woman and those men,”  In the Bible??? 

The part you might be referring to is when he paraphrases Corinthians: “Don’t be deceived. Neither the adulterers, the idolaters, the male prostitutes, the homosexual offenders, the greedy, the drunkards, the slanderers, the swindlers—they won’t inherit the kingdom of God. Don’t deceive yourself. It’s not right.”  

So everything he said is not in the bible, so this is not a slam dunk. Also, this is not a religious affiliation issue it was specific comments he made that again aren't quoted in the bible that were insensitive to the audience of the network and their sponsors...he wasn't quoting scripture and got it hot water, this is a terms and conditions clause in his contract as an entertainer on the network and falls into the "personal conduct" area that is basically don't embarrass the network. Pretty rock solid open/close book case....yeah, go ahead and print that fact filled Wikipedia page and fax it to his attorney haha

firemaiden9510
firemaiden9510

@DonnieFrierson Actually you can be fired for your beliefs or you sexuality. Here in Kansas, you CAN be fired, evicted, or denied services for being gay, and it is perfectly legal. However the Walmart where I work can't fire a gay person for being gay because it is in their store policy that they can not. Whether or not a person can be fired for religious beliefs or sexuality is completely dependant on state laws and company policies. I have met a number of  Pagans who have been fired for their beliefs, because where they live allows it. Never rely on Wikipedia for anything serious, anyone can go on there and change up anything they want. That's why Wikipedia is not allowed as a source in schools.

tom.litton
tom.litton

@aristotle_dude@LuciusDarkThat's not what the polls say.  


I think A&E would have lost a lot more viewership if they had done nothing.  Those that disagree with Phil would boycott, those that agree would shrug and move on with their lives.

aristotle_dude
aristotle_dude

@thebull138 It has been proven as authentic as far as events recorded in it regarding the rise and fall of cities and civilizations. Who proved this? Archeologists through various digs in the holy land.


Your prejudice is showing? Go visit a library and read up on this stuff.

thebull138
thebull138

The bible has been proven authentic? Ha ha ha ha ha.......By WHO? You Sir, are an idiot

....

aristotle_dude
aristotle_dude

@VoxyBrown I understand what consensual sex is but would you agree that consensual sex between siblings is still wrong and a sin?


The bible had a lot of moral standards that expanded upon the ten commandments and they did not just focus on homosexual sex but also other types of sex whether or not it was consensual or not based on the fact that it defiled both people engaged in the act.


Adultery also is usually consensual but it is not only a sin but causes harm towards a marriage.


The 10 commandments can be summed up as love one another but most people are confused as to what "love" really is. If you find this confusing then perhaps "don't be a prick" would make more sense.


Don't be a prick and cheat on your wife. 

Don't be a prick and sleep with another dude's wife.

Don't be a prick and lie/purger.

Don't be  a prick and steal another dude's stuff.

Don't be a prick and dis your parents.

Don't be a prick and dis god your creator.


Get the point? Don't be a prick and live a life where your prick does not rule your life. That sums up the commandments and the morality laws given to clarify things for people who were wondering about "grey areas".

VoxyBrown
VoxyBrown

Do you understand the context in which Alexander the Great lived? Do you understand the context in which sin is expressed when a person kills? Or when a person rapes? Or when they have consensual sex?

Does the Bible understand that context? By your words, it doesn't. It equates any and all sin.

You seem like a smart guy. Smart enough to understand the difference context makes, and evidently smart enough to expect others to.

Why are you defending an ancient text which insists it makes none?

N!cole
N!cole

Those damn gays! Attacking christian settlements and causing the crusades!

aristotle_dude
aristotle_dude

@N!cole Do you understand the context of the crusades? Are you aware that the crusades were called after 4 centuries of attacks on christian settlements and killing of pilgrims travelling to the holy land?


The decision to send armies was not by whim. Name any other leader who would wait 4 centuries to counter attack. Just one.

N!cole
N!cole

So, did the Pope approve of the crusades because he was ashamed of his gayness? By your logic Genghis Khan must also have been gay, and the conquistadors must have been gay, becausue they wouldn't have killed anyone if they weren't insecure about their sinful urges. Start re-writing the history books, thanks to aristotle_dude we now know that all violence is caused by gayness!!! Thank you aristotle_dude, for your awe inspiring insights into world history! Now we know, Hitler was just gay and so ashamed he turned to genocide.

N!cole
N!cole

You're the one who came in here claiming that Alexander the great killed people because he was "insecure about being gay" I thought it merited a similarly stupid response.

Realworldnonfantasyland
Realworldnonfantasyland

@aristotle_dude We live in a world of 6 billion people and access to the lives can be sought within 5 minutes of the time you think about them.  If you dig deep enough, and go through enough skeletons you will find bad things happening to people. 

But good god guy, you are comparing Apples and Zebras here.  I honestly have no idea how you are comparing a guy who killed lots and lots of people for most likely no reason other than he had power and some bully who probably comes from a broken home who in most regards causes no harm( Again, in the age of the media it seems like we live in a crazy crazy world, when in reality no one ever brings out serious violence for being bullied, yes yes I know kid goes into school and kills 2 kids, happens once a year.  If you look at the history of the world its probably the best its ever been with how few times that happens)