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Viruses Don’t Care About Your View: Why ABC Shouldn’t Have Hired Jenny McCarthy

Giving a job on The View to a anti-vaccine celebrity sends a dangerous message about public health and science in general

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Victoria Will / Invision / AP

This morning, ABC announced that Jenny McCarthy would be taking the place of Elisabeth Hasselbeck this fall as co-host of The View. Announcing the hire, producer (and soon-to-be-exiting co-host) Barbara Walters praised McCarthy thus:

Jenny brings us intelligence as well as warmth and humor. She can be serious and outrageous. She has connected with our audience and offers a fresh point of view.

“Fresh”? “Outrageous”? Well, that’s a nice way of putting it. McCarthy, former Singled Out host, columnist, and Playboy model, is telegenic and outspoken. She’s also the single most visible celebrity spokesperson for the discredited, literally dangerous belief that childhood vaccines can cause autism. On her side is her anecdotal claim that vaccination gave her son autism, and a debunked study from 1998. On the other is, pretty much, the entire pediatric community.

Why should anyone care about one celeb on a TV show? There are many TV critics who dismiss The View as silly out of hand. I’m not one of them; if anything, I’ve been a View apologist. However loopy the show can get, I give it credit for at least trying to discuss issues and politics in daytime TV.

But discussing the news, even at 11 in the morning, comes with responsibility. And for a show even remotely about news–and a career newswoman like Walters–to legitimize McCarthy’s dangerous anti-science because she will probably get crazy attention and ratings is irresponsible and shameful.

Because persuading parents that needed vaccines cause autism isn’t just a zany, oh-no-she-didn’t opinion. It’s wrong. Study after study has refuted the claimed link between vaccines and autism. And the fear of vaccines doesn’t just potentially harm the children whose parents forego vaccination, but other kids as well, by threatening the “herd immunity” that we rely on to protect the larger population from disease.

The View’s Sherri Shepherd may once have wondered if the world might be flat, but at least no one fell into orbit as a result. Vaccines are actually a matter of life and death.

Our public health system depends on parents immunizing their kids. And The View, by nature and demographics, is a show aimed largely at parents, mothers in particular. And people can condescendingly write off its influence at their peril, and children’s peril; a University of Michigan study showed that about a quarter of parents placed “some trust” in celebrities’ views on the safety of vaccines.

(By the way, you’d probably no sooner get your immune-science information from a TV critic than a celebrity. If you want to read about this in detail, Seth Mnookin’s book The Panic Virus traces the history and deadly effects of the anti-vaccine beliefs, and the irresponsibility of treating it as a he-said-she-said issue. [Update: Mnookin has posted an excerpt about McCarthy on his blog.] For a shorter read, Phil Plait has done great coverage on the issue, and McCarthy’s disinformation, at Slate.)

ABC might argue that hiring McCarthy does not mean endorsing her vaccine beliefs. Maybe not–in a way, it may be more dangerous, muddying a vital question of public health by framing it as a “controversy” that you can hash out in a roundtable before interviewing Bruce Willis about Red 2.

Maybe ABC sees McCarthy as a lateral swap for Hasselbeck–another outspoken, blonde woman around the same age. But medical science is not a matter of “views” and “opinion.” It’s not like believing that capital gains taxes should be lowered or gay marriage permitted. Things cause disease or they don’t.

Even if The View never airs McCarthy’s beliefs about vaccines–or, conversely, if every other panelist argues against them every day–by giving her implicit credibility the show has already suggested that her scaremongering is up for debate. She says one thing, Whoopi says something else–hey, you decide! People are talking! We must be doing something right!

And there’s the bigger problem. To say that you can simply shrug off differences about medical fact as “outrageousness” or “controversy” is to feed the belief that science in general, be it vaccines or climate change or evolution, is simply subjective: you have your truth and I have mine. But we don’t. The Earth didn’t revolve around the sun only for Galileo.

The problem with treating factual matters of science like opinion debates is that as soon as you do that, anti-science has already won. Let The View on-the-one-hand-on-the-other-hand as many hot-button social issues it wants. A virus doesn’t have two hands.

452 comments
LauraCordova-James
LauraCordova-James

What people missed in the conversation about autism rates gong up is that we did not have a criteria to diagnose it, let alone no name for the symptoms.  We would call a severely autistic person dumb and put them in an institution for the rest of their life.  Only a Swiss doctor identified and named the diagnoses of Autism in the early 1900's.  It wasn't until the 1940's, that some American doctors began to use the diagnosis but we still did not have any criteria to identify it as a consensus, so a lot of people who had autism were simply misdiagnosed or not diagnosed at all.  Finally, as we began to have behavioral therapists for special needs children and psychiatrists with better diagnostic tools and study in the 1980s and 1990's, the diagnostics for autism became more refined, ergo the diagnoses went up.  So, its not that autism was on the rise, it was that the diagnoses correctly pinpointing it went up. At the same time organic food sales went up, so was it the sales of organic food that caused the Autism?  

No. Did increasing vaccine schedules have to do with better Autism diagnostics?  No.  Correlation does not mean causation with organic food sales to vaccines.  However, studies were done to see if vaccines were the culprit for Autism.  Its the scientific method that uses controlled studies to use experiment to see if it is true or false. So, populations of vaccine scheduled children and non vaccine scheduled children were studied all around the world.  The results with cooperative studies done internationally at the same time have shown that vaccines are not connected with the rise in autism reporting.  Further research has shown that Autism is a gene expression.                       

In conclusion, better diagnostics gives people the illusion that Autism is rising, when its really not.  Some people who are becoming biochemists and engineers today are on the high spectrum of Autism called Aspergers who blend in society just fine. It has always been with us on a larger scale, we just never knew it until now.

GeorgeAdamrovich
GeorgeAdamrovich

Does this writer have anything better to write about that Jenny McCarthy? It's just a TV show and not everyone that watches will take what she or any other women on the show said to be right or wrong. We are not all stupid, we can make up our own minds on what we should do and not do. If Jenny does not want to get her kids vaccinated well that's her right as a parent. If more people keep their noises out of other peoples business this will be a better world.  

DCTODDONE
DCTODDONE

Jenny McCarthy is NOT the only parent that believes that their child has autism because of a reaction to vaccinations.  She may be the HOTTEST, but so what?  Those that don't believe there is a link between immunizations and autism should spend more time doing research and less time believing the hype.  Better yet, ask yourself WHY your child gets 2-3 times the vaccinations that you did as a child...

vfrickey
vfrickey

No, Jenny McCarthy BELONGS on "The View" - it's a show BY numbskulls FOR numbskulls.  She's just maintaining the show's general tone of sedulous adoration for lack of thoughtfulness.

JayneChapman
JayneChapman

I thought this was America - since when do we not hire someone on tv if their views are controversial?  FOX spews their lies on a daily basis and they are allowed to continue to do that - we know of at least one doctor who performed abortions who was murdered because the pro life people were stirred up by the likes of FOX and one crazy person decided to take matters into his own hands. Jenny McCarthy speaks from her own experience - our grandson had the same experience after having his MMR - he was progressing normally and right after the MMR he lost all of his words, had seizures and had explosive diarrhea for ages - these children who have autism all have gut issues. Whether autism is the direct result of the MMR or whether it happens on top of a genetic link, there is no doubt that there is something about the MMR and autism - tens of thousands of cases of this happening can not be just dismissed no matter how much big pharma would like that to happen.  Parents need to watch the reactions their own children have after each shot they receive - if they have a reaction they should wait to allow their children to get shots until they are a little older and their body can take it. If a severe reaction like a seizure occurs that child should probably not have the shots. This needn't be all or nothing - parents know their own children.

AntonioFrancisco
AntonioFrancisco

Why are so many people catching cancer and autism these days. 100 years ago most people didn't even know what autism and cancer existed.

PeggyThatcher
PeggyThatcher

I recommend "The View" hire on panelists who have something to say the the public which is of real value.  Jenny McCarthy is a public health menace.  She scares parents needlessly, and that can result in death and life-long disability, and endangers children who cannot be immunized. Even small outbreaks of childhood communicable diseases can be extremely expensive to contain and treat.

I recommend people who are unfamiliar with whooping cough go to YouTube to see what children with this disease endure for weeks or months.  It's horrible.

thefloattank
thefloattank

This article is crap. Jenny just said and stated what a lot of parents of Autistic kids already know and believe about vaccines. Courts in Italy have ruled the MMR causes Autism and has more guts than any vaccine injury compensation program here in the USA. You are just ignorant to the facts or the current stats which could be about 1 in 55. You don't appear to have been effected just yet or know of anyone effected to grasp the situation. When does someone actually decide to take action when it's 1 in 25??  I am sorry, but you seem to be a pencil penis for writing this article along with the editors who took the time to include it in the magazine. LOL!!!!!!! I had to throw in an insult as reading this trash called for one. Jenny seems to have stopped talking about the issue some time ago because of the stigma attached to coming out with what needed to be said, but you are bringing it up again like she was on the news last night again front and center in Washington jumping the fence at the White House to see the president. Give us a break!

21stcentury
21stcentury

I feel bad for JM's disease-vulnerable kids, but she's a funny, smart if ill educated woman who has enjoyed a modicum of success mining her best attributes.

kpriv
kpriv

Here ya go folks.  Just ONE article, written by two doctors, among hundreds of articles that show the big pharma companies will put profits over your well being.  If there's a trial and the witness is proven to be unreliable, then their testimony is considered tainted.  How can we possibly trust those who so shamelessly release toxic nightmares as "cures" onto us, without apology?  How can we possibly trust those in the CDC and DHHS when they make rulings and policies that favor their future employers.. they nearly all leave their government positions for cushy pharma jobs after proving their loyalty.  What we have here is a corrupt system, that profits on your poor health.  Why would they ever want you to be perfectly healthy?  They would go out of business... Talk about conflict of interest!!


http://vactruth.com/2012/01/25/gardasil-killing-us/

With complete disregard for the welfare and safety of the people who take their products, the pharmaceutical industry has made a habit of putting profits above all else.  Despite a track record of bringing us drugs that kill and maim, such as Vioxx, AZT, Fen Phen, and Thalidomide, there is never an apology, never a commitment to improve, never even an acknowledgement that they have done anything wrong.  Now, as if we have learned nothing from history, the drama is unfolding yet again, this time with Gardasil. - See more at: http://vactruth.com/2012/01/25/gardasil-killing-us/#sthash.WIuO14Ir.dpuf

tooban
tooban

Why do you people abuse each other? If you can argue in a civilized manner, stay quiet. 

Now... Polio. Measles. Smallpox. Tetanus. Horrible diseases, now pretty well gone. Why? Sorry, Ill take the risk of the vaccine. And why not look at the crap food you americans are forced to eat? Its easy you know - meat no more than a couple of times a week, and then food that goes off if you leave it out. If its in a wrapper or made in a factory, don't eat it or feed it to your kids.

kpriv
kpriv

So many here have no idea what they are talking about- that is the problem with the internet...  Jenny M was NEVER anti-vaccine... She led a coalition to push for getting the toxic poisons REMOVED from vaccines.  Science fully SUPPORTS that mercury, aluminum sulfate, formaldehyde, and anti-freeze are toxic.  If you disagree, please take a large dose of any of those and get back to me tomorrow.  

There's no NEED for any of them to be in vaccines.  90% of the comments on this article and the article itself are anti-factual and misleading at best.  Do your homework people, stop reacting with knee-jerk reactions because someone at TIME didn't do their research.  The mass media has been misinforming you- and simple logic without the fearmongering can shed a lot of light on this.  Toxic waste = don't inject.  Vaccines are fine without them.  So why aren't we all asking WHY are they loaded with them?

scs_in_nj
scs_in_nj

Time really has the anti-science viewpoint here. A recent major study reported that the huge increase in autism is vaccine related, as the vaccines are causing a huge increase in pre-diabetes among children.

And "The View" should exclude her because of her opinion on this matter.  Sounds like medical McCarthyism to me.

csgauthier
csgauthier

I have a son who has autism, and I resent views like McCarthy's, because it gets in the way of real science, real research and real treatment.

That said, she shouldn't get a job because of this?  What other views should we not hire people for having? 

lilady
lilady

An excellent post Mr. Poniewozik.  It is high time that mainstream media roundly condemn The View's choice of this anti-vaccine, anti-science celebrity.

McCarthy's organization Generation Rescue sponsors a yearly conference for dubious *autism treatments/cures*, such as chelation, chemical castration, IV intrathecal stem cell transplants in filthy, unregulated off-shore clinics and industrial bleach enemas, that are hawked to credulous parents.

Jenny invites discredited and disgraced former medical doctors (Andrew Wakefield and Mark Geier) to spread their pseudoscience and their assault of the public health system in this country.

Thank you for taking this public stand.


lornadoone
lornadoone

Will we ever really know whether or not vaccines are the cause of autism, I mean the drug companies will pay big bucks to keep this information a secret....they have millions at stake, I still would vaccinate myself, but I still question  these new vaccines for hpv Virus and some other newer vaccines out there....do they really work? or are they just money makers for the big drug companies, by putting fear into people?

DeweySayenoff
DeweySayenoff

@DCTODDONE Actually, I've done the "research".  Guess what?  It says that immunizations are safe in general, very effective, and are a considerably lower hazard than the diseases they help to prevent.

Why do our kids get 2-3 times the vaccinations we did?  Because since you and I got vaccinations, medical research has learned that vaccinations need to be boosted at times to maintain effectiveness.  We also have developed more vaccines against more diseases.  That means you need more vaccinations to avoid those diseases.

Duh...

Autism has no link to vaccines.  At least not any more link than to, say, drinking water.  People who get vaccines DO get autism.  People who drink water DO get autism.  There is no causation there.  There's no correlation between the two.  Autism doesn't increase or decreased based on vaccination rates.  It's simply the fact that autism starts to manifest around the time the vaccines start to come due that makes people think one causes the other.  It's like blaming trainer bras for breast development.

I'll BET YOU that if you put a trainer bra on a girl of five, she will develop breasts.  It happens every time.  It just might take some time.

Much of the problem you are facing is that the alarmists are good at being stupid and speaking in stupid-talk.  That is to say, you can understand them easier than you can understand words like "causation" and "correlation".  They also rely on ignorance of the fact that life CHANGES.  We LEARN NEW THINGS.  When we learn new things, that means we have to do things differently because we learned some things aren't as good as we thought.  Such as the concept that vaccinations are "life long prevention", which they're not.  The alarmists scream about this and claim conspiracies and other patently disproved nonsense, but the weak of mind who don't know any better are all too easily convinced that anyone talking about bad things that might happen to kids is right.

They're not.

But the really tragic thing about the lack of vaccinating one's kids is the misery they cause others when the diseases they get, that could have been prevented - like measles - spreads to an adult and they lose their ability to even HAVE KIDS (which is one of the potential side effect of measles in adults).  One parent's paranoia and ignorance means someone else can't even have kids of their own to be paranoid about.

Not to mention the fact that their own kid, about which they are paranoid, suffers through a preventable disease for no damn good reason.

So feel morally superior to everyone else for your "research".  If your kid is autistic, it's not because of vaccines, but likely because of you and your partner's genetics.  And once your kid grows up and realizes that they got all those childhood diseases because you were an idiot, they'll have even less reason to love you.  And you can also congratulate yourself on your role in preventing overpopulation.

I don't know what you consider "research" to be, but you didn't do enough.

HarrietHuestis
HarrietHuestis

@JayneChapman  No No No. You made several very dangerous statements based on eronious information.  A history of seizures is not a contraindication for vaccination.  from http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/vsd/mmrv.htm

  • ACIP recommends that a personal or family history of seizures is not a contraindication or precaution for administration of MMRV, MMR, or varicella vaccines.

The risk of seizures is much higher for the disease than for vaccination.  Furthermore with vaccination it is in a controlled situation. 

Autism is unrelated to mmr as countless studies have yet to find any correlation except for  the only study which instigated this messwas found to be fraudulent.   This is a blog but he links to the studies.  http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/mmr-vaccines-do-not-cause-autism/

lilady
lilady

@thefloattank Incredibly biased decision by a lower court in Italy...which is now being appealed.

The magistrate who made that ruling for the plaintiff, based the decision on evidence from Andre Wakefield's "research"...which has now been throughly and irretrievably debunked.  The decision by the Remini Italy magistrate can been condemned by legal experts worldwide...and by the science community worldwide.

Do try to keep up with legal developments before you post here.



LauraCordova-James
LauraCordova-James

@thefloattankAutism has always been very high in our populations in our past.  Its been with us for hundreds of years if not thousands.  What you not told is that we did not have a criteria to diagnose mental symptoms very well 100 years ago and even 50 years ago.  We would call an autistic person dumb and or deaf and put them in an institution for the rest of their life.  We had no diagnosis for autism in America.  Only a lowly Swiss doctor started the diagnoses in the early 1900's and it still was not used as a diagnoses in main stream medicine until recently.  Then in the 1940's, America slowly began to use the diagnosis but we still did not have any criteria to diagnose it thoroughly, so a lot of people who had autism were simply misdiagnosed or not diagnosed at all, because we did not have a role for behavioral therapy.  No specialists were established in the job market for behavioral therapy for children nor did we have special needs applications at the time.  Over time, a consensus began to be shared by psychiatrists and doctors that started in the early 1980s and 1990's and then the diagnoses to identify autism went up.  So, you see... its not that autism was on the rise, it was the diagnoses correctly pinpointing it that went up.   This is what people need to LISTEN to! 

lilady
lilady

@21stcenturyJenny has one child.  She used that one child's seizure disorder to revive her career as a fading-fast D-list celebrity, by aligning herself with J.B. Handley's Generation Rescue.

Generation Rescue has a yearly conference in Chicago.  Here are just a few of the disgraced and discredited former doctors, quack doctors and alternative "practitioners" who are invited as keynote speakers at that conference:

http://justthevax.blogspot.com/2013/07/the-view-of-jenny-mccarthy.html


lilady
lilady

@kpriv You're using Gary Null who has a PhD from a diploma mill?  What a joke...and what a credulous person you are to be sourcing your information about vaccines from Null.


JayneChapman
JayneChapman

@tooban Most of us who have had a child or grandchild wind up with autism after taking the MMR are not saying get rid of the shots - we are saying that parents should pay attention to the reaction their own child has after getting a shot - if no reaction, continue taking the shots. If a severe reaction, either space the shots out over a longer period of time, wait until the body can better accept them, or in extreme cases, don't take further shots. Decades ago, we all only had a few vaccines - today's babies are overloaded with them - their tiny bodies might not be able to accept them.

kpriv
kpriv

@tooban 

You really think McDonalds is what causes autism?  Sorry, I don't know about your family policies, but most people don't feed 3-month old babies with big mac and fries.

lilady
lilady

@kprivWhy are you posting here?  McCarthy was a fading-fast D-List celebrity who used her child's seizure disorder to propel her career forward.  She is ignorant of basic science, clueless about chemistry, biology and immunology.  She cannot even retell the "story" of the sequence of events that led up to her child's first seizure and what vaccines she attributes to her child's diagnosis of autism.

McCarthy brags that she is a graduate of Google U and is a tool of a wealthy businessman (J.B. Handley) who plucked her out of obscurity and made her the spokesperson for his Generation Rescue organization.  Generation Rescue is part of the incestuous group of organizations that are anti-vaccine and anti-science and which seek to undermine the public health system of preventive immunizations, in this country.

Here are just of few of the disgraced and discredited former doctors, other assorted quacks and alternative "practitioners" who have been featured at Generation Rescue/Autism One's yearly conference:

http://justthevax.blogspot.com/2013/07/the-view-of-jenny-mccarthy.html

I suggest that instead of bloviating here, you do some research at reliable websites...and stop parroting the garbage that you read at those notorious anti-vaccine, anti-science blogs.


 



JCarp
JCarp

@kpriv

1. Mercury is not in vaccines and was phased out in 1999
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/thimerosal/ 
http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/thi-table.htm

2. Antifreeze is simply not in any vaccine.

3. The other ingredients are used in trace amounts as stabilizers and preservatives to prevent contamination, similar to canned foods. The amount present in every vaccine a child is expected to get in a lifetime would add up to about 1% of the potentially dangerous level.

For example, potassium is part of many foods including bananas. Potassium will react extremely violently and/or explode when exposed to moisture or water of any kind. Therefore, eating bananas could cause you to explode. 

See, the ingredients aren't injected in their pure form or in sufficient doses to accumulate  to cause any damage.

4. Claiming she's not anti-vaccine and just wants to remove the toxins from them is like claiming I'm anti-banana I just want the potassium removed from them. Saying "delay the schedule" is suggesting lengthening the time a child with minimal immunity can be exposed to potentially deadly disease. Saying "don't use vaccines that have these ingredients" is suggesting ignoring scientific evidence to their safety and not vaccinating. 

5. "...please take a large dose..." you even acknowledge that a large dose is necessary for anything to happen. Any substance can become toxic at high enough levels. These ingredients have low thresholds but are included in vaccines at fractions of a percent of those thresholds.

lilady
lilady

@scs_in_nj 

"Sounds like medical McCarthyism to me."

Sounds like you read J. B. Handley's rant posted on Age of Autism to me.

lilady
lilady

@csgauthier It is not her views that parent/advocates object to, it is her unseemly use of her son's seizure disorder to revive her career as D-List celebrity.

Then there is the matter of her groups sponsorship of a yearly conference that features disgraced and discredited former medical doctors Andrew Wakefield and Mark Geier...and quack practitioners who urge parents to have their children undergo stem cell transplants at unregulated and filthy off-shore clinics, chelate their kids for "heavy metal toxicities" and shove bleach enemas into their children to effect "treatments/cures" of autism.


Viscers
Viscers

@lornadoone The HPV one is actually a very compelling case. The results have come loud and clear, it works. Even in the short time that it has been around, it has caused a massive drop in HPV rates in a number of countries. The results of other vaccine programs are easier to conflate due to them coming about at the same time as large sanitation programs in those countries. But the HPV vaccine has clear results, with little other variables, and was repeated in a number of countries.

csgauthier
csgauthier

@lornadooneYes.  We really will know whether or not vaccines are the cause of autism.  They aren't.  We know.

DrKAC
DrKAC

@lornadooneGosh, we will never really know if keeping a banana stuck in your ear keeps alligators away.  Gosh, we will never really know if inhaling other people's flatus causes gout.  Please.  Vaccines do not cause autism.  The uptick in autism is multi-factorial: 1) earlier screening methods that detect components of the spectrum far earlier (Non-verbal learning disorders and Asberger's are included in ASD where as once these folks were just considered brilliant and quirky), 2) Women having children at later ages (this also correlates with having more intelligent children also, BTW, so pick what you'd like) 3) Genetics 4) Maternal obesity 5) Maternal use of SSRIs (which were essentially non-existent 20 years ago).  Why does everyone pick on Big Pharma when they are afraid of vaccines but they don't seem too upset when they come up with drugs like sofosbuvir that can help cure Hepatitis C?


JayneChapman
JayneChapman

@lilady @kpriv Unless you have a child who wound up with autism after taking the MMR you can't speak with authority on this subject. My grandson was progressing normally until he had the MMR - he wound up with seizures, violent diarrhea and lost his words right away!!  NO ONE can tell me there isn't a connection!!  Tens of thousands of parents of children with autism have had this EXACT SAME experience!!!  NO connection?  BULL!!!

JayneChapman
JayneChapman

@JCarp @kpriv Babies start getting vaccines at birth - a parent can see if their child has reaction to them. Some children are very prone to severe reactions - our grandson was one - no so our granddaughter - if a Jenny McCarthy had spoken before our CJ was born and, seeing as he had had reactions to all his prior shots, we probably would not have had him take his MMR and maybe he would not have autism today. Some children are highly sensitive to ANY of these toxins you speak of

AntonioFrancisco
AntonioFrancisco

@JCarp @kpriv  but you do agree that mercury was once in our vaccines, and they didn't remove it until people where made aware of its effects on the brain. also SV40 was in our pollio vaccine in the 50's & 60's that caused cancer. they also didn't remove that until people became informed. So how am i supposed to believe there isn't anything harmful in the vaccines today. Looking at the past, you don't find out until you already have it. Then its too late!

kpriv
kpriv

@JCarp

All because you say so.  There's more than enough evidence that trace amounts of toxins in the body can cause these ailments.  I know you won't listen, but you are spouting dangerous rhoetoric.

Yes, antifreeze is in vaccines.  Go to vactruth.org or go find any other independent site of your own choosing.  The government says they removed mercury (thermisol), but independent studies continue to keep finding it in current vaccines.  

The current vaccination schedule has never been tested for safety.  Most safety tests on the individual components have been done by ingestion, not direct injection.  There's a HUGE difference.

There's a buttload of independent doctors and scientists who argue much the same as what I've said.  I'm talking about non-government, and non big-pharma employees.  The CDC is not telling anyone the truth. If they were, why are so many of the original findings, meetings, and even some studies classified?

There are currently over 30 independent studies showing vaccines and/or environmental mercury contamination is linked directly to autism.  

How can you explain countless parents testifying that their kids were progressing normally, then developed autism after the MMR or other multi-vaccination?  (and I know the government tag-line response for this, it doesn't hold water).

Autism isn't genetic.  Autism symptoms are not medically documented prior to the 20th century.  Most propaganda claims medicine confused it with MR and other brain disorders.. but the idea that we could diagnose other diseases and disorders that are multitudes harder to detect, and yet, were too utterly stupid to recognize the differences in autism prior to the 20th century is simply and utterly absurd.

1 in 50.. That was what- 6 months ago?  It's not an epidemic, it's a disaster.  Keep denying, but you cannot ignore it forever.. The truth is simple and obvious.  It's most likely 1 in 40-45 today.  It's accellerating faster than anyone can possibly imagine, or bring themselves to believe.  Soon it will be 1 in 10.  1 in 3.  50/50.  What happens to society when it becomes 2/1, 4/1, 10/1??  Total societal collapse, that's what.  Will we just start killing them off because it's impossible to support them?  


At 1 in 50, we're already ignoring that it will (ultimately) completely bankrupt SS disability.  Add in CP, and other disorders, and it's a guarantee.

And sorry, the banana analogy is apples vs oranges.  I'm not going to spend all day debating it, it's silly.

And yes- I'm the parent of a severely autistic child.  A child that was completely normal until the day she got her MMR.  She never recovered, and never will.

(5).  Those thresholds have never been tested on humans by injection, and most certainly not on developing brains.

Here's some links:

http://healthimpactnews.com/2013/30-scientific-studies-showing-the-link-between-vaccines-and-autism/

http://vactruth.com/


And by the way- autism speaks is an infected organization.  It's run by a former big pharma bigwig and gets most of it's funding from them.  If you want a good source of info, just take the opposite of whatever they say.  You will find most parents of autistic children won't support that corrupt pile of crap that calls itself a charity.

JCarp
JCarp

@butterz17708

From your source: "This is the result for autism, in which we don't see much of a trend except for a slight, but not significant, increase for the highest exposure. The overall test for trend is statistically not significant." 

That is, there were no links found between vaccines and autism. Furthermore, the discussion goes deeply into the forced attempt to provide environmental contributors to autism (which were not found) at the exclusion of further study of known and suspected genetic contributors. 

What part of "she gets in the way of real science" would those scientists disagree?

lilady
lilady

@butterz17708 @lilady Who are you calling a moron?

How about the moron who posts dumb retracted articles written by RFK, Jr....and uses crank websites as citations about Wakefield's "vindication".

Try again.



JCarp
JCarp

@butterz17708

1. the MMR vaccine does not contain mercury, aborted fetus DNA, or live viruses, I'm unaware of the other three being ingredients as well, but can't state plainly that they aren't.

2. This "vindication" is actually an unpublished study with quotes from Dr. Walker taken out of context that he openly denies. In other words, the author of the "vindicating" study disagrees with the claim your making.

3. Both of your citations are non-peer reviewed sources that are established to present a specific point. They are known for their bias, not their science.

lilady
lilady

@JayneChapman @lilady @kpriv 

You keep parroting that same old garbage that you read on anti-vaccine websites.

My child was born with a rare genetic disorder which caused profound multiple intellectual and physical impairments.  He also had a partially controlled grand mal seizure disorder. He was immune compromised and had a bleeding disorder which caused several internal bleeds (pancytopenia, ITP, platelet adhesion and aggregation disorders). He had "autistic-like" behaviors...not autism.

I worked as a public health nurse clinician-epidemiologist investigating individual cases, clusters and outbreaks of vaccine-preventable diseases.  I know only too well, how the small but vocal anti-vaccine, anti-science organizations (where you get your internet-acquired pseudoscientific from), have worked diligently to scare parents off vaccines...and the deadly consequences.

So, all your postings and all your internet-acquired knowledge don't mean diddly-squat to me.

Get a life, stay off those vile internet sites, take some basic courses in organic and inorganic chemistry, biology/physiology, immunology, virology and bacteriology and learn how to enjoy your special needs grandchild. Please stop referring to your grandchild as vaccine damaged.






 

lilady
lilady

@AntonioFrancisco @JCarp @kpriv How about providing one case documented is a first tier peer reviewed science or medical journal that shows that SV40 virus contain in polio vaccines 50 years ago....caused one case of cancer in a human?

lilady
lilady

@kpriv@JCarpStill parroting from the anti-vaccine playbook, eh?  How about providing links to studies published in first-tier peer reviewed journals, to defend your remarks.  

How about perusing some of these studies about vaccine safety and the lack of association between vaccines, the ingredients in vaccine, the timing of vaccines...and the onset of autism...or any other disease or disorder?

http://www2.aap.org/immunization/families/faq/vaccinestudies.pdf



JCarp
JCarp

@kpriv

Just, wow. So, I'm not supposed to accept empirical evidence from multiple studies because you believe they're all conflicted interest reports from current/future "big pharma" execs but you post exclusively from conspiracy driven anti-vac sites that base their reports on retracted studies, out-of-context quotes, and nepotistic self-parroting. I've seen the "28 studies" but not the additional 2+ you mention. Those 28 are a combination of self-reference studies, discredited sources, and/or unrelated studies where a quote is pulled and twisted. 

Nothing I posted is "because I said so." I cited two references for all that info. If you won't consider alternate points of view when supported by empirical evidence, what's the point of presenting your side of things? 


JCarp
JCarp

@kpriv
Mentioning something online, even hundreds of times, doesn't make something true. The article I believe you're referencing can be found at http://www.ane.pl/pdf/7020.pdf
This is the actual, empirical article published in the Polish journal "Acta Neurobiologiae Experimentalis" In it, they discuss how they add thimerosal to preservative-free vaccines. Then, the amygdala of the "exposed" group was significantly different than the "unexposed" group.
Notice how this is a far cry from "...given standard doses of childhood vaccines as part of the new research, developed autism symptoms." Again, this is taking information out of context and embellishing it to suit a specific goal. The study lends credence to the argument against themerosal, but that argument has been over for more than a decade. Nothing about "autism symptoms" of "standard vaccines" were discussed.

Thank you for the link, though.

kpriv
kpriv

@JCarp @scs_in_nj 

Oh, and before you attack the site that article is on, that study is mentioned in hundreds of articles across the net.  Google is your friend.