Lost Discussion Group: What's the Objective?

It’s trite, but the characters’ motivations are, I think, all different. I’m basing these off the end of the season premiere, because it would be uneven given how we’ve seen focus on some so far but not others. Here’s my stab at their primary motivations:

Jack – figure out why he failed (again)
Kate – find Claire, but no plan after that
Sawyer – drown in his own sorrow
Hurley – keep his friends alive & together
Sayid – (unclear, what with him being infected)
Jin – find Sun, go home
Miles – survive, go home
Sun – find Jin, go home
Ben – come out of this alive
Ilana – save the Island/stop Flocke
Richard – save the Island/stop Flocke
Frank – survive, go home
Flocke – leave the Island
Claire – (OK, we didn’t see her in the premiere, but she’s off her rocker now, so I’d say get Aaron back)

James, I mentioned this on Twitter to you and Mo Ryan (thanks for the re-tweet by the way!), but thought I’d share here:

I think the characters’ central motivation, or the objective at Lost at this point, is to discover the answer to two questions from Season 1 (which is, I should note, highly appropriate if you subscribe to the theory that each season of Lost mirrors back on itself — 1 to 6, 2 to 5, 3 to 4):

1. Live together or die alone?

2. Guys, where are we?

The first question plays significantly into the battle between Smokey and Jacob — are the Losties going to divide into camps and become pawns to these Island deities/demi-gods in their bizarre and still undetermined battle (die alone)? Or will they recognize the significant ties that bind them all together, the importance they all have to each other in their lives, and band together AGAINST Jacob AND Smokey (live together)?

Of course, the “live together” theory also works if you presume that they can all band together with one good island deity….but I don’t buy that theory. Lost has always been about exposing the gray and refuting absolutism and zealotry — we are not meant to choose between faith and science, destiny and free will, black or white, but rather embrace both and realize that to have internal harmony/balance we need to embrace both.

This plays down to a character level, too. It’s not that Jack should never be a hero — when he does, sometimes great things happen, like fixing Sarah’s back or removing Ben’s tumor. It’s that he needs to realize that somethings cannot be fixed, and that he can and should let them go. Ditto Kate — the solution sometimes isn’t to run away from problems, but face them. Ditto Locke — there are some things he can do, and some things he cannot do, so he needs to embrace and excel in the former and not be tortured by the latter.

That’s why I still go back to Smokey’s 3 choices to Sawyer in the cave: 1) join Jacob, 2) join Smokey, and (most importantly) 3) don’t join anyone, and just see how things work out. This third choice was worded incorrectly, though — Sawyer’s true/right choice is to choose his 815er friends, and embrace the friendships and ties to them, and not get embroiled in a battle that has nothing to do with them. In a way, this is the lesson of Rose and Bernard from the end of Season 5 — stop trying to run around and fight things, and instead come to peace with each other. I theorize, therefore, that the correct path for the Losties is to band together, and not play the silly Island-god games.

As for the second question — “Guys, where are we?” — I think that answer will be played out as a result of the choice the Losties make in terms of the first question. How they choose will effect either their alt-2004 selves, or negate the alt-2004 version and allow them to move forward off the island on a new path, or we will come to see that alt-2004 is the RESULT of what happens on the island, and thus the flash-sideways show us that the Losties “learned their lessons” on the island.

(How is that for a theory?)

Two things.

1) I don’t think we’re supposed to have a clear sense of this quite yet, as confusion is still most prevalent (by design: I don’t think there’s something we’re missing, this is clearly deliberate).

2) Personally, I think the tension between the mythology and the characters is less problematic and more, well, the point. I think that the characters are meant to feel somewhat overwhelmed by what’s happening around them, and I think the challenge will be finding some sort of self-actualization within this chaotic situation. Some of these goals are clear (Kate wanting closure with Claire), some of these goals are intricately wrapped up in the mythology (Jack’s search for purpose, Sawyer’s long con with Smokey), and some of the goals are yet to be decided (Ben, disillusioned and confused). But the Flash Sideways structure, at least for me, reminds us that these characters once (and in another life, do) had/have different goals, simpler goals that drove them and gave them purpose. And while the mythology is threatening to consume them, I think the point is not whose side they pick, or who wins the battle, but whether they as characters are able to find their own purpose within the labyrinth.

For the past five seasons, the characters’ backstories have explained who they were before they arrived on the island, and in some ways the various “objectives” you mentioned have compromised those characters. For me, the final season feels like the show returning to the first season in that who these characters were, their most base purposes and desires, are returning to the forefront in the Flash Sideways; they provide the humanizing factors necessary to combat the overbearing mythology, and should provide the series (and the characters) with the grounding necessary to maintain its focus on its character amidst the epic battle of the ages set to unfold on the island.

The only characters who will remain trapped in it are those like Richard and Ilana who have been defined based on their connections with the showdown.

I would say Jack has no clue what his objective is. He Is still in a daze that his plan didn’t work and Juliette is dead. He is simply reacting to what happens around him—although now that he has seen his home in the lighthouse glass I think he wants to solve the mystery of who Jacob is and why he has been watched and possibly manipulated by whoever was operating it. I think he wants answers.

Myles, nice work. I think you’re right on.

We’re not supposed to know what’s going on right now.

I think the characters will realize who they are/what their goals are as they go. And perhaps part of their purpose in life was to come to the island and be involved in whatever weird game Jacob/Esau are playing.

It’s right there when you rewatch the pilot–it’s all in Locke’s conversation with Walt. LOST has always hinted at something bigger, which we’re finally seeing. I don’t think we can be upset that there’s something bigger than each of our characters going on on that island.

Here’s how I *hope* it will be resolved. There is some larger game going on between Jacob and Smokey. However, the outcome of that game largely depends on the end journeys of the characters that we’ve followed from the beginning. All the flashbacks/forwards/sideways have been about: can these people change? Can they break their patterns? In a nutshell (as they debated in the season finale of ep 5), Smokey is betting everything on the belief that they can’t; Jacob believes that they can. Somehow the battle between the two depends on who is right.

But ultimately, the characters have to be foregrounded, and they have to have some concrete objectives. Because we’re only going to care so much in the end about whether Jacob or Smokey win for their own sake. It’s like It’s a Wonderful Life: yes, there are cosmic forces involved in the action, but ultimately, it’s not a movie about whether Clarence gets his wings.

I’m rooting for them to tell both Jacob and Smokey to piss off, and to take control of their own lives instead of being pawns in the game. It’s time to knock over the board.

I believe that Todd made the “It’s a Wonderful Life” comparison in his review at the LA Times, and it fits well.

You’re right that the characters are going to need more concrete objectives, but I think that the show would feel rushed (which, while understandable considering it’s the final season, is still not what I would consider desirable) if it started on that point early on. While “What Kate Does” was not purposeful enough at investigating Kate’s state of confusion/lack of purpose (it remains a misstep, if not a useless one), I thought “Lighthouse” did a good job of demonstrating that Jack still has a way to go, and positioning him to find that objective. The sheer confusion at the end of Season 5, and the introduction of Jacob/Smokey in earnest, requires that the show sort of realign itself, and the necessity of reintroducing Claire and handling Jacob’s death/Fake Locke’s existence has meant that the mystery has certainly remained at the forefront.

But I think you raise the important point here: the key to unlocking the mystery is found within the characters, and once the show gets its early setup out of the way it feels like this is the direction they’re heading in. So long as the show addresses the mysteries of the island through the self-discovery of its characters, rather than using the characters to unlock the mysteries of the island, I think that this tension can be put to good dramatic use.

One other interesting note: last night’s episode, “The Lighthouse” was the 108th episode of the show.

So I wonder — does the fact that we’ve finished 108 episodes now mean that (like the Hatch clock), the story-telling will now accelerate (like the Hatch cards flipping over rapidly/going to heiroglyphics, etc.)?

Just a thought….

While the Castways each have their own motivations and personal objectives, I think the main objective we’re being led to is what Jacob’s nudged them toward all along: protect the island –> protect humanity.

The island has always been a microcosm for the world writ large. There is a war coming, but the battles have been going on since the beginning. Jacob vs. Smokey, Ben vs. Widmore, Jack vs. Locke… while THEMATICALLY the show has always been about free will vs. predestination and science vs. faith, it all boils down to light vs. dark. Good vs. evil.

The numbers, which we now know tie into the Candidates & Recruits were explained as factors in the Valenzetti Equation… the doomsday equation. Dharma’s actions, the actions of our own castaways, the Others, Jacob’s followers, Smokey’s followers, they are all affecting the equation. Smokey wants apocalyse, Jacob wants utopia. “It only ends once.”

What the specific task(s) needed to accomplish this are and what EXACTLY “saving humanity” means… I guess that’s a larger question we can only hope Lindelof and Cuse decide to answer.

Pulled from my never-thought-I’d-use-this-quote file: “The object of the game is to discover the object of… the game.”

I’ll reiterate my guesses I’ve scattered across this season.
By and large, their lives in the alt-world are better – but the world itself is worse. (Not sure how yet – a still existing Soviet Union threatens to go to war with the US?) Said worseness is about to be magnified by Fake Locke (or one of him, anyway) getting loose in the alt-world.

So it will soon be time for the players to take their sides. Not with anything as reductionist or simplistic as “good vs. evil” – the player with the white pieces in backgammon is not the protagonist, that is simply the color of his pieces.

Rather, they will have to choose sides based on something more fundamental to our nature as individuals in a civilization: personal happiness vs. the well being of the group, say, or freedom vs. order.

And their experiences over the last six seasons, and what they will be willing to give up to have themselves, or the alt-versions of themselves, be happy, will determine what each of the characters we know will do – and thus which philosophy will “win”*.

*Of course, few seem to think about just how that “winning” has been set up over the years. With the death / dismissal of almost all the young characters, we are now left with a cast of decidedly middle age survivors – and even the youngest characters have children, whether their own (Sawyer, Sun/Jin, Claire, alt-Jack) or adopted (Kate, arguably Charlie). Civilization/life doesn’t end when we die, it lives on through our descendants – and by slowly pruning those childless characters from play, the show has worked that element into the endgame for the characters.

This is my current theory of Lost: God = Jacob. The Devil = Smokey. Neither = Alt-2004.

And the Candidates get to choose.

Perhaps ex-Candiates include those who died, and those who have already chosen one of the last two options.

I can see your issue. The main characters no longer really have an overarching goal they are all invested in. Instead the show has been fragmented into lots of little goals. Claire is trying to find Aaron; Kate is trying to find Claire; Jin & Sun are trying to find each other. Meanwhile, many characters are now adrift without any goals. Jack, Hurley, Miles, Sawyer, and Sayid. On top of that, we have these new characters being introduced – Dogen (and his group), Smokey, and Jacob – who we do not necessarily care about.

However, in terms of the new characters and the new questions, it seems to me that those are necessary to bring resolution to the story. For better or worse, Jacob and Smokey are an integral part to the answers we have been waiting for. Whether it turns out that everyone was just pawns in their plan is not clear. How much the characters’ free will plays into the resolution of events is also unclear. I agree with you in that I hope that it is the characters and their choices that are the center of the final resolution and not simply some battle between Smokey and Jacob. I think the fact that Jacob is dead precludes that really.

What seems to have happened, and what seems to be causing problems with people, is that the fourth wall has been broken. The “goal” is no longer the goal of the main characters. The “goal” is for us, the viewers, to find out what the hell has been going on for the last 5 seasons. Personally, I am more interested in that then really any of the personal character arcs. But I can see how people who have become invested in these characters might find themselves shortchanged by not having clear goals for many of the characters anymore.

Here’s the thing: I don’t think Jacob views them as pawns. Smokey does, and he is directly trying to manipulate them to reach his version of the endgame. (For example, I think he was lying to Sawyer and that the cliffside cave was his lair, and not Jacob’s. He was crossing off names he had eliminated.)

I think Jacob, on the other hand, isn’t trying to move chess pieces across the board. I think he is simply trying to get these characers to full their potential. Sepinwell through a hissfit in his review of Lighthouse, complaining about how Jack was being unnecessarily manipulated again, ala Ben & the tumor. I didn’t see it that way at all. I compare Jacob’s role to Locke’s story about the Moth in S1 – he could help them, he could tell them everything, but that would just end up hurting the Losties more than helping them, ruining them for life. That’s why he wants Jack to figure things out on his own. I think Jacob’s whole purpose is to prove that humanity CAN figure things out on their own, rather the repeat the same mistakes over and over. The most he will do is present them with the opportunity, it’s up to them to take it. It only ends once, everything is just progress (though he’s placed on his cards on the table gambling that this is where it’ll end).

While the new timeline is growing and introducing new, loveable characters… Jacks kid David, plus a Jack who got rid of his addictions… and not much time remaining till may 23 and the finale, the feeling grows on me that the flash sideways into Lost B show us the happy ending. With time running out, a slow pace in Lost B, and new important characters and appendix scars popping up I wonder if these two universes are really supposed to fuse into each other over the next couple of weeks. If we check back into seasons one to five, and the speed which was used to tell the different chapters, I have the feeling that Lost will end in LOST B. Because the setup for the final conflict, and the reveals, come nice and fast along in LOST PRIME, but it’s only 12 eps to go. I am not spoilered, so I can be totally wrong about this. Lost Prime, which reminds me more and more of the game ‘Myst’, with the cave from last week and the lighthouse now, leads up to the final confrontation at the temple. Locke bringing his people to the game, Sayid is a wild card, and Desmond will find the island in time, mirrors or not. Jack will find out his destiny, and fullfill it. They fight, they die, it only ends once. But I don’t see how the two Lostverses are supposed to collapse into a single one. I expect the end to be Lost B. Just look sideways…

I agree with this post. I think the producers are intentionally setting us up for a big game changer where the Losties flip the finger and take back their lives. It would be awesome to see.

That would a fun little detail in the story. Let things be slow and unclear as it “beeps” its way down to 0, then goes crazy from there.

I am really enjoying this season so far. I don’t have any concerns about the pacing or the motivations/whatnot, we’re still in the early part of the season and things are so very interesting. I like the new characters and the temple and the focus on Jacob-Esau. Before the season started, I had a list of answers I wanted. However, when this season started back up, those questions took a backseat to just enjoying the show and seeing where it goes from here.

What are we supposed to be rooting for? My thoughts basically echo what some other folks have already said – that we’re rooting for our Losties to figure out how to stop being pawns in someone else’s game. We’re rooting for them to be active agents in their own lives, face their pasts, and take control of their futures. To live together, rather than die alone. That’s what I’m rooting for, anyway. The fact that each character has different goals/issues to sort out isn’t a problem, its the whole point. I don’t think that we are supposed to be “rooting” for Team Jacob or Team DreadLocke, IMO neither side is worthy of unconditional support. Neither free will nor predestination is all right or all wrong. Our Losties are caught in a web, and we are rooting for them to come together, suss out how to get clear of it, find the balance, and move on.

I also don’t share the concern that I’ve read from several bloggers that the flash-sideways stuff is problematic because we don’t know how it fits in, or what it means, so the stakes are unclear. Yeah, we don’t know – but this is LOST, for cryin’ out loud. We’ve never really known how any of it fits together. The stakes have always been somewhat unclear. I don’t want things to get much clearer until closer to the end, because I prefer to be left guessing until things start wrapping up. I like the Sliding Doors aspect that we’re getting from having the divergent timelines, and I’m really interested in eventually learning how they relate to each other – will they merge together? will one replace the other? do both really exist? I am starting to hope that the alt-timeline is going to be the end result of what happens this season (rather than just what happened last season), but I’m having trouble explaining why. I like the idea that these folks could bring an end to the Jacob-Esau standoff and be zapped to the alt-timeline where the island hadn’t existed since the 70s, so the endings for the characters are really what we’ve already seen in the sideways flashes. That way, when the series finale wraps up, we’ll see that they’ve already given us our endings without us even knowing it at the time. But who knows. Probably not. I’d rather be wondering, and the possibilities be infinite, then have clear answers now and have everything set in stone. Its like Schrodinger’s TV show…

I’m okay with motivations being a little up in the air right now for Jack, and for a couple other characters as well. I think they’re largely floating, feeling defeated, not being sure what to think. They traveled through time. They willingly returned to an island they hated living on. They blew up a hydrogen bomb. That’s a lot to take in.

What I’m not okay with is no one talking about it. Seems like a more compelling romp through the jungle would have included Jack & Hurley talking openly about what the heck is going on. Or Jack saying to Sayid, “They say you have a sickness. They said Claire had it to. Did you know Claire is my sister? Does that seem weird to you?” A full conversation between characters we’re invested in sounds more rewarding to me right now than a bunch of cryptic, one sentence exchanges that are designed to be intriguing. The whole show is intriguing. Let the characters breath a little bit. It’s season six. It’d be okay for Hurley to process that they were in 1970. It’d be okay for Kate to freak out and lose her head a little bit. It’d be okay for Jack to tell Kate, be careful, they said something’s wrong with Claire.

I get the sense that the writers don’t know how to write any other way. And if that plays out – if Smokey v. Jacob drives everything, and everyone continues to respond instead of take charge, if no one ever has a somewhat depthy-y conversation without it being overblown or silly, I will feel a little manipulated.

Great stuff here.
I hope you;re right, macevangelist. I had been getting a little antsy with Lost B, not disliking it, but I was more into the island story. After reading your thoughts, I feel totally different about it, and I’m looking forward to more.
and davesandell – “What I’m not okay with is no one talking about it” – that’s exactly what’s bugging me too. well said..

What’s the Objective? I think it’s a great question. And I share all of your thoughts and frustrations. All I can add is that maybe the question is also the answer. After you’ve done everything you set out to do… After you have accomplished all of your big goals and nothing significant changes… well then what was the point of it all? It’s not a huge intellectual breakthrough idea or one that leaves you with a big a-ha… And it’s certainly not TV drama friendly. But it seems like something our characters are dealing with right now. And it may be that they never really figure out the answer. That may be frustrating, but it could be legitimate. Maybe.