Tuned In

Lostwatch: A Different World(s)

ABC

SPOILER ALERT: Before you read this post, get out your giant hollow wooden ankh and leave yourself a note reminding yourself to watch the season premiere of Lost.

When I first saw the pilot of Lost, I made what was, in retrospect, an extremely stupid assumption about it: that since it was about people stranded on an island, it would have a tightly circumscribed group of characters, since there wasn’t much way to bring in new people.Then we discovered the flashbacks, the flashforwards, the Others, Dharma, the freighter, Widmore, Jacob, Smokey… you get the point. The point is, at every turn, at the start of every season, Lost found a way to confound my expectations and expand itself in a way I didn’t imagine.

Ditto the beginning of season 6. It seemed clear that the H-bomb explosion would in some way reset Lost’s timeline. And there was speculation out there—or leaked information, depending—that it split the timeline. But what I wasn’t expecting that we would see two alternative timelines, both reset by the H-bomb—and yet each slightly (or more) changed.

In the reset-2004 timeline–a reunion smorgasbord, with Boone, Arzt, Frogurt and more–Jack is still sitting next to Rose when the “turbulence” hits. (Although: was she reading Weekly Woodsman in the original pilot?) Charlie is swallowing his stash in the bathroom. But Hurley, in this “reset” universe, is the luckiest guy in the world, not a jinx. Christian’s body has gone missing. Shannon isn’t on the flight while Desmond is. (And Michael and Walt? I’m guessing we’re given to assume they’re on there somewhere? And the tailies…?)

Meanwhile, in the reset-2007 timeline (I called it “Universe 2″ or “U2″ in my notes), nothing has changed, except that it has. The survivors are still on the Island, but have been blown ahead in time. Juliet survives, but briefly: long enough to kiss Sawyer goodbye, yet not long enough to tell him to watch her return in V on March 30. But she delivers a message through Miles: “It worked.”

It did? Yet there is still a Hatch, which appears to have been imploded, as it was by Desmond. And the Others are on the Island, but what we meet, at the Temple, is a group of what I’ll call the New Others, who include Stewardess Cindy and the kissing missing tailie kids, who arrived via Oceanic 815′s crash. So how did the bomb blast work?

There was a lot more to process in the 2007 timeline than in the 2004 one: notably, the much-guessed revelation that UnLocke, a.k.a. The Man in Black, is also the Smoke Monster–”Let’s not resort to name-calling”–who got to show his stuff in a satisfyingly cheesy CGI fight scene. And we discovered that Smokey does not only have Locke’s form, but has access to his memories, including his final, confused thoughts: “I don’t understand.” Which, Smokey is right, is about the saddest thing I’ve heard on this show.

Indeed, leaving aside the cool reveals and confounding further questions, which we can talk about: this was a really sad two hours. Not just for Locke’s achingly final, tragic end, but for the fact that, so far, there seems to be very little real happiness for anyone in either of the alternative universes–so far, anyway. Charlie, in reset-2004, wishes he had died in the bathroom. Sawyer is alone in 2004 and grieving in 2007. Locke is dead one way and broken the other. And in either timeline, Jack is still unable to fix anything.

I wish I could advance some big theory of how and why this all resolves, but all I can do right now is rub my head, throw out some bullet points, and wait anxiously for next week. There are too many possibilities. Do these two timelines converge, or does one of them have to “win”? At what point do the characters become aware of the divergence? (Does it dawn on them gradually, as in, appropriately, Groundhog Day?) Are there universes existing in parallel, or are we simply seeing two realities, one true and one false—the aim of the season being to reveal which is “real”? (And in any case, can we stay invested in two realities, neither of which may end up being permanent?)

[Shrugs.] From here on out, I’m guessing, it’ll be hard to judge season 6 as individual episodes so much as one big one. I have a couple concerns: that alterna-2004 will be able to maintain interest (Kate running from the law again?), and that alterna-2007, with its Apocalypse Now / Indiana Jones Temple, is skating the edge of silliness. (And it also risked some repetition, as, for instance, we got a second tearful goodbye between Sawyer and Juliet, where the first had been so wrenching and effective.)

But skating that edge is where Lost is most comfortable, and where it does its best work. It was a brave move, and I’m guessing an intentional one, that in that bravura underwater zoom through the ruins of the Island, the camera-eye whizzed past an actual shark [Update: Dharma-branded, of course], as if defying us to say the show had jumped it. That’s what Lost does–it plays with the big fish–and credit to it so far for again exploding itself into a new world (or rather two new worlds) that I couldn’t have imagined.

Welcome back, Lost. Here’s your hail of bullets:

* I’m not even going to pretend to have spotted all the differences between the plane in alt-2004 and the plane as we saw it in the original pilot. To paraphrase a wise man, We’re gonna have to watch that again.

* How many times did we end up seeing Juliet dragged by chains? At a certain point, it starts to seem like a blooper reel.

* Jack doesn’t recognize the name Jacob when Hurley mentions it. I don’t recall this, but has he never heard Jacob discussed?

* Question: If the reset-2007 timeline–in which the bomb blast “worked”–did in fact successfully change the Island’s history, then has it changed the circumstances of the 2007 in which Smokey, Ben, Sun and Richard were last season? Or have they always been in that rest timeline?

* Other question: In the 2004 reset timeline, was the H-bomb the thing that sank the Island, or are we just assuming that?

* And one more: The title of the premiere was “LA X.” Why the space? Does it just indicate an alternate Los Angeles, or something more?

* Quibble: Why did it change from deep night to broad daylight by the time the crew drove Sayid to the temple? I don’t remember the specifics of the Island topography, but does it take that long to drive from any one point to another?

* I am assuming it is very significant that Christian’s body does not make the plane in alt-2004. But I have no guess what the significance is. Ditto the wound Jack finds on his neck while in the airplane bathroom.

* Speaking of which: does 2004 Jack have deja vu, or some kind of trace memory of the time he spent (or didn’t) on the Island? His behavior after we first see him hints at it. On the other hand, since he did meet Desmond briefly before coming to the Island, it’s possible that’s the reason Des seems vaguely familiar to him.

* “Lennon,” the English-speaking lieutenant of the New Others, was John Hawkes (of Deadwood and the Miranda July movie Me and You and Everyone We Know).

* This almost goes without saying, but excellent work by Terry O’Quinn, who managed to fully inhabit both the arrogant Locke-as-Smokey and the beaten-but-decent Locke of 2004; that latter performance really turned back the clock.

* Finally, though this was a very sad two-parter in some ways, there were some pretty funny moments. Many of them courtesy of our new villain, Smokey Locke. Best line of the night? “I’m sorry you had to see me like that.”

Sleep beckons, so I’m going to leave it at this. I’ll check back in in the morning and maybe add some updates (and, probably, corrections). In the meantime, I’m sure you’ve got plenty to talk about.

Update 1: Oh, yeah, Sayid. How is he? What is he? Who is he? It could be, of course, that he was in fact simply healed/resurrected on a delayed basis. (In the ambiguous scene with Hurley and Miles after Sayid’s “death,” Miles seemed confused—perhaps as if he were not picking up a he’s-actually-dead vibe from Sayid?) On the other hand, best theory I’ve seen so far comes from Mo Ryan, who posits that Jacob is borrowing Sayid’s body, just as Smokey took Locke’s form. Of course, Smokey assumed Locke’s shape but not his actual body, whereas Sayid seems to have risen bodily. But it’s better than any theory I have at the moment.

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  • mimsysnark

    Wow…Just wow…
    OK, maybe I can recover from my mind being blown sufficiently to add my $.02. In your excellent blog post here, you’ve captured just about everything I thought of, particularly how much they really highlighted the question of whether it really would be better for anyone if they never crashed on the island. Like you said, Charlie wants to kill himself, Kate on the lam, etc.–6 of one, half dozen of the other, no?

    Desmond’s appearance on the plane was in itself pretty jarring, but not as remarkable as his sudden disappearance–it would seem he is back to being “unstuck” in time, I’m thinking? They’ve got to come back to that! As far as Jack recognizing him, I do think that there were other little hints that Jack has at least a deja vu-type of memory from being on the island, but they played every moment out so subtly that it could go either way.

    Even though I’m sad that Locke seems to be really dead (um, 2007 Locke, that is–this split timeline is going to get annoying!), I get a kick out of seeing Terry O’Quinn get to be so deliciously evil! By the way, the recapper for TV Without Pity started calling the Man in Black “Esau” last season, which is at least vaguely appropriate, and filled with the proper religious symbolism. Then again, now that we know for sure he’s also the smoke monster, I guess he can just be called Smokey.

    Finally, I had to laugh at myself when I realized how just a few minutes into the premiere I did an about-face from being thoroughly fed up with Jack in the last couple seasons, to utterly sympathetic. I think that had a lot to do with his switch at the end of last season from the stoic man of science to someone who believes in destiny. In the aftermath of his decision to try changing the past, it’s like Jack suddenly became the new Locke wherein (like Locke) he saw his well-intentioned act of faith sort of backfire on him and he ends up letting everyone down. Jack seems to have some newfound humility which endears him to me again. Now if only Kate could have some similar arc–the woman still manages to do the exactly wrong thing every time she acts!

  • rosseau

    So Desmond can not only travel through time, but he can travel through universes? The Desmond on the plane may be the Desmond of the Island right after he turned the key. He may have inhabited a consciousness that can travel through alternate realities. Or maybe the hydrogen bomb hurled him into the other universe instead of keeping him on the island and giving him time jumps. I have no idea, not sure if any of that made any sense.

    This actually was a modest–yes I know how insane that word is when applied to what we just saw–episode. Not much was answered. It was a movement episode: how to get Juliet out, how to get Richard in, Evil Locke for some reason knocking out Richard and carrying him, the gang going to the temple. They sort of set up a straw Sayid. We knew all along that he would survive so his death and coming back to life wasn’t surprising. But I don’t think they did it just to create suspense. Sayid may have Jacob in him, without realizing it. The water not being the fountain of life was important. Maybe Jacob’s nemesis impacted it somehow. I don’t know who the head temple master is, but it was good to see Sol Star, and with glassesd!

    I don’t know how the two universes will converge. I seriously doubt one of them is a dream. That would just be completely unchacteristic of the complexity of this show. I think Desmond though is the key. Maybe if Desmond jumped to this alternate reality, Jack’s father jumped to the island reality, and perhaps it was that Christian we saw last season.

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  • rhys1882

    My view is that Jack’s dad’s coffin did make it onto the plane, but that during the flight past the island the coffin transported off the plane and to the Island. Remember in Season 1 how Jack finds his dad’s coffin out in the middle of the woods, intact, but empty? I think the disappearance of the coffin relates to that. I think that even though the timelines split, the coffin and jack’s dad’s body stayed with the Island. What was up with Desmond disappearing on the flight too? Did Desmond also get transported off the plane because of his weird abilities in relation to time travel?

  • gnatalby

    If, in Western culture, you want it to be a surprise when someone comes back to life after being all the way dead, perhaps don’t make them a middle eastern man with a puncture wound to the side and a superficially bleeding head who is carried with his arms perpendicular to his body.

  • nickelking

    I really want to know about Jack’s neck wound.

    As well as the not clear water… or was that just to make it not working conceivable?

  • adriaezn

    Confusion headache. Inability to focus on work/school. Sudden desire to book a flight to Sydney. This can only mean one thing – LOST. IS. BACK.

    All I have to say: amazing premiere that answered just enough questions and raised just enough more to strike a perfect balance (personally, I hope the series ends this way – not truly answering ALL the islands mysteries…where’s the fun in that?! Plus – leftover questions = possible movie?)

    My only “quibble” – the writing didn’t seem up to snuff. Whether it was the TSA employee (“BECAUSE IF YOU CAN UNDERSTAND ME, AND THIS IS ALL A BIG MISUNDERSTANDING, NOW WOULD BE A GOOD TIME TO SPEAK UP!”) or the Temple Translator (“We’re not trying to keep you in – we’re trying to keep HIM OUT!”) it just seemed to wander a little too far into cheeseville for me.

    Final point – why have the translator? (“I do not like the way english tastes on my tongue”?? seriously? feelings of cultural superiority/inferiority seemed an odd bit of emotion to add to the mix during this episode…unless they’re just trying to show the timelessness of the New Others – meaning that they transcend any one language – but why wouldn’t he speak Latin then? Furthermore, what language WAS homeboy speaking? Japanese? Korean? Mandarin?)

    But those “quibbles” aside – amazing episode. I can not wait to see what happens the rest of the season!!!

  • adriaezn

    A few more things:

    1) Is it safe to assume that Sayid is now Jacob reincarnate? Much like Smokey and Locke?

    2) The saddest moment of this episode for me: seeing Bernard and Rose deboard the plane – knowing that she might not have that much longer to live.

    3) It’ll be interesting to see how this H-Bomb explosion somehow affected events that seemed to precede the plane crash (for example, shannon staying in Sydney, Walt and Mike not being on the plane, etc.) I guess we could just assume that not having that island in the 70s could somehow tangentially affect the moods of those in 2004? (Weather patterns perhaps? Cloudly skies gave Shannon a case of the Mondays and kept her from travelling to L.A.?)

    4) Since they didn’t partake in the 2004 plane reunion, will we all be forced to accept the fact that Nikki and Paolo may be gone forever? (The tragedy!)

  • adriaezn

    Last thing, I promise:

    Smocke (Smokey + Locke? Let’s have that start catching on…starting now.) to Ben: “I want the one thing John Locke didn’t…I want to go home.”

    Yikes.

    Where is home?

    The Temple? Off the Island? Heaven? One of Saturn’s moons?

  • gnatalby

    I think he was speaking Japanese.

  • southernbell49

    When Sayid was lifted from the pool, he was in a very dead-Christ-on-the-cross position. That had to be intentional.

    And did I hear Stew Cindy say “the first plane”?

  • chriskw

    @James,

    I don’t think 2007 has been reset. By that I mean that in that timeline the H-Bomb never went off. Juliet set off in the bomb in the timeline where Oceaninc 815 doesn’t crash. Then Jack, Kate, Sawyer and the rest transported back to the “original” timeline with the others in 2007. I have feeling they’ll never explain why the H-bomb didn’t just kill them but in fact sent them through time but also universes.

    I think the only reset timeline is the one in 2004 where the plane lands. The only thing that changed in 2007 was the Jack and Co. got transported back to it. And that isn’t technically a change since it happens at the exact point in ’07 that we left off last year.

    Last season, Richard told Sun that he had seen her husband and friends die. I am assuming that he didn’t see them die by the H-Bomb (since he wasn’t anywhere near the Hatch). I am assuming the 2007 Richard saw them die in a different manner.

    There is an interview with Damon and Carlton over at ew.com where the producers discuss the idea of two timelines.

    http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/02/02/lost-premiere-damon-carlton/

    @gnaltalby

    I couldn’t agree more.

  • tenderfeet

    I’d agree that they definitely tread very close to cheesy at times (the comically oversized ahnk, the entire tribe of uniformed new others/whisperers, the 70s van conveniently coming along for the ride to 2007), but managed to pull it back and so far I’m along for the ride. Rough having to go through another Juliet/Sawyer scene, though I’m hoping her ‘It worked’ message ends up being pivotal enough to justify it.

    Very excited to see how the two timelines end up coming together. With any other show I’d expect only one to end up as ‘real’, but I’m willing to bet we’ll get a better resolution one way or another. As others have mentioned, maybe Desmond can somehow traverse between the two? Could other characters that ended up missing do the same (Christian, Claire)?

    I’d also agree that it was odd Jack didn’t recognize Jacob’s name. I thought on Hydra he at least saw the Jacob conditioning room though I can’t remember for sure. I suppose it has been 3 years for him since that point, possible he just doesn’t remember?

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    Yeah, “reset” is not quite the word, but it’s altered, at least in that the survivors have been blown ahead in time. (I say “at least” because I never want to assume too much.)

  • Gillian

    This may be pretty obvious at this point, but I’ve started to believe that Smokey was embodying or taking the form of Christian in the earlier seasons (and Christian told real Locke to turn the wheel, bring everyone back for presumably evil, as-yet-undetermined-reasons), and once Locke’s dead, unburied (significant? Christian’s body was also unburied, as was Alex’s and Yemi’s) body was back on the island, Smokey took that form instead, as it was more useful for his ultimate plans.

    When the SOTS people got to the cabin last season, the ash line was broken and Ilana said that Jacob hadn’t been there in a long time, and that “someone else had been using it,” which must have been Christian, as we have seen him there many times. Last night we also saw Smocke/Lockey cut a piece of a tapestry rug and hold it next to his knife, just as Ilana found a piece of a tapestry stuck to the wall of the cabin with a knife. So now I want to go back and figure out how Christian was manipulating or interacting with the Losties in the last 5 seasons to look for clues.

    Also, fantastic post as usual James, and I always love coming here and reading all the comments, which stand far apart from the dreck that occupies so many comment threads. I’m excited for Tuesdays again!

  • parisker

    @James – you said “…Stewardess Cindy and the kissing tailie kids…” Don’t you mean the “Missing tailie kids”?

    @adriaezn – I got the feeling that Sayid was now Jacob, or Jacob was somehow using Sayid’s body so that the struggle between Jacob and MIB (Smokey/Locke) will continue.

    This episode completely blew my mind, and even though I was half confused through watching, and will have to watch it again, I was giddy while watching, because I was so excited that this show is FINALLY back!

  • karibemidji

    Parisker -
    I’m ALWAYS confused while watching and then I come here and the fog lifts! I just wish my husband would read this blog so he would shut up during the show.

  • shara says

    “It’ll be interesting to see how this H-Bomb explosion somehow affected events that seemed to precede the plane crash”
    .
    Plus Hurley not being cursed – if the island stopped existing, the numbers wouldn’t have been broadcast, and he wouldn’t have ever come in contact with the cursed numbers (right?) – hence Lucky Hurley.

  • shara says

    Yup, that was totally blatant. As soon as we saw him doing the spread-arms-thing Mr. Shara Says and I both shouted “he’s gonna rise from the dead!” It was definitely effective imagery/foreshadowing.

  • shara says

    And Cindy did say “the first plane” – the Oceanic one (the second being Ajira, right?).

  • Tom Shaw

    Sayid isn’t Jacob, Sayid is Sayid. That was the entire point of Miles’ “Nothing” comment – there was no ghost activity from Sayid, because he wasn’t dead.

    As far as the alt-timeline goes: it looks like there was quite a bit of misdirection there:
    1) Sayid’s passport is foreign. He isn’t trying to meet up with the sweetie in the picture, he’s going to arrest her (or worse).
    2) Sawyer doth protest too much. He damn well knows what a code 341 is, because he’s not a con, he’s law enforcement – hell, he probably slipped Kate his cell phone to track her when he walked her out of the elevator. (What if Sheriff Sawyer is his destiny all along, and con-man Sawyer was the anomaly caused by Jacob allowing him to write down his anger?)
    3) Yay Desmond! Err, wait, Desmond only left Charlie’s side when the latter was trying to swallow the drugs. Desmond isn’t a nice guy, he was the one forcing Charlie into the drug trafficking.

    As far as the two timelines goes: despite my suggesting it back in May, now that I see the actual results I’m unmoved. But I will say that the disjointed nature of the two storylines can’t stay this way for long. Either Esau will try to blow up the world, in reference to the emptiness of their lives that real-Locke thought (my new pet theory: The Lost Experience is set in the alt-timeline) or some of the Losties (Sawyer being example one) will leave and go the “real”* world, with him settling down with alt-Juliet in the finale.

    *We are all in agreement that the old timeline now only exists on The Island, yes?

    No mention yet that Richard apparently arrived on The Island, via boat, in chains as a slave? Whereas the Japanese spiritual leader crash landed during WWII (hence his hatred of the English language).

    Cindy says first plane crash because Ajira was the second. (There goes my Ajira actually landed in the alt-timeline theory. Ah well, can’t win ‘em all.)

    All in all, I found the execution underwhelming… assuming the alt-timeline is just a no-stakes rehash. But again, I’m not sure of either half of that statement: that there are no stakes, nor that it is a straight rehash, even if the Locke & Jack bits fooled us into thinking so.

  • treepeony

    Homeboy was speaking Japanese (quite rude japanese actually. I would be insulted to be spoken to like that.) and his name is Hiroyuki Sanada and quite well known in japan. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0760796/

    Also, in reguards to ‘how english feels on my tongue’, that might be a very poetic way of saying, “English is hard and I don’t like speaking it.” I taught ESL in Japan for 3 years and the phonetic difference between English and Japanese makes it quite difficult for new students.

    Another point, Sun and Jin went quite a long time without speaking any english to the audience and we all did just fine. I see no reason why Mystery-San has to speak english if he’s not comfortable with it.

  • Dave

    First and foremost, I feel the need to reiterate how much I love this show. What a great episode… and there were a lot of things I didn’t like.

    ARG timeline: I don’t like it. There has to be a reason for it, and it has to be somehow resolved at some point. I just can’t fathom how they’re going to do that or what the reason is. That being said, I really enjoyed some parts of it (Rose & Bernard; anything with Locke; the exchange between Hurley, Arzt, and Sawyer). A few parts really annoyed me (anything with Kate, anything with Jack that didn’t involve Locke), but I enjoyed the content of it, even if the mere existence of the fake timeline bothers me.

    Sawyer: just when you thought matured, loving Sawyer couldn’t get any more awesome as a character… enter: matured, loving-yet-brokenhearted, bitter, angry Sawyer. This season is going to rock.

    Sayid: my personal speculation is that it’s really just Sayid, though there’s no evidence to base that off.

    Smokey and the bandit: didn’t Ben and Smokey find it odd that Jacob’s body disappeared into the fire? Nice to finally have it explicitly stated that Smokey is the man in black, though now I suspect I’ll be trolling Lostpedia for every instance where Smokey encounters a person. In each encounter, does it look like it’s Smokey trying to evaluate whether it can use the person as a means of killing Jacob? Are people (physically) touched by Jacob off-limits to Smokey? If Jacob touched Jack pre-Island, and Christian told Vincent to wake Jack up because he has a job to do, was that Smokey or was it really Christian acting on Jacob’s behalf? Let’s not forget that we’ve seen Smokey explicitly lie, so we can’t take Christian for his word either, assuming he’s really Smokey. So did Smokey think that he was using Jack for his own gain (killing Jacob) right off the bat?

    Assumptions: someone above asked if it was safe to assume something. I think the only safe assumption right now is that we can’t assume anything :)

    Ben: I still say he’s going to redeem himself in the end. He’s Darth Vader right now. In the end, Anakin will redeem himself.

  • natego

    Yeh, that kinda seemed annoyingly intentional.

  • Dave

    “*We are all in agreement that the old timeline now only exists on The Island, yes?”

    By “old timeline” do you mean the “present” with our heroes at the Temple? If that’s the case, then no, I disagree… I don’t think they would wipe the 5-season slate clean for everyone not currently on the Island (Desmond and Widmore are the two biggest characters/plot devices that immediately come to mind; Walt too if you don’t consider that an abandoned road).

  • illdiz

    Flight 316: John 3:16;
    Sayid, risen after a baptism heals the wounds in his side and on his head;
    Smoke Locke: wants to “go home” followed by a demonic stare;
    “Christian” has disappeared from the flight and in the first season had disappeared from his coffin;
    I’m getting some vibes here!

  • treepeony

    Whereas the Japanese spiritual leader crash landed during WWII (hence his hatred of the English language).

    I would hold off on casting Mystery-San as a WWII vet for a little bit. A.) We don’t have any hard evidence of where/when he’s from and B.) You didn’t have to live during the WWII era to hate Americans. They’ve been hating us since Commodore Perry showed up on their door and said, “Open up or we’ll blast our way in.”

    And really, is that anyway to start a friendship? ;)

  • archstanton68

    I think the differences in the 2004 universe will be important.

    -Hurley was the luckiest guy alive
    -Sawyer warning Hurley about con men
    -Shannon not on the plane
    -Locke seeming very calm for a man who had his dream crushed. I think he actually did the walkabout this time.
    -Charlie choking on his heroin. I’m assuming he swallowed it, then tried to regurgitate it. In the original timeline this didn’t happen as he had to go get his heroin from the bathroom on island. that was also in the front of the plane, and in alt 2004 it seemed like he was in the rear bathroom

    -Desmond. He was not on the plane originally, but was in the alt timeline. Makes sense if the island isn’t there to disrupt his race. As for him being “unstuck” in time again, I don’t think that’s what is happening. When he was unstuck, his consciousness moved through various events in his life. He was never bodily moving through time like Sawyer et al. were last season. That has to be an important difference. He could have easily returned to his original seat to get his carry-on or something. His possible vanishing feels like a distraction to get us thinking the wrong things.

  • Dave

    Remember that the only Jacob reference in Room 23 is a quick flash of “God loves you as he loved Jacob” amidst the chaos of images flying at you. And come to think of it, I don’t think Jack even saw Room 23. Sawyer and Kate busted Karl out, because Jack was doing surgery.

  • larrylootsteen

    My question is why question the dual timelines. Seems to me the island crew is in a time WAY back when the temple was in far better shape. As opposed to the LA crew which is in 2004 time.

    The question for me is how the way back timeline lines up with the new 2004 timeline!

  • natego

    1. I thought the comment by Charlie “I was supposed to die” is important.

    2. There has to be a reason they are pursuing the 2004 timeline. I bet it comes back around at some point. I don’t think it is to throw us off the mark or for filler – i do wonder what is the point tho and where the plotlines are leading (i.e kate running away, etc).

    3. the importance of the Locke/Boone scene? He DID go on the walkabout?? or no?

    4. Do we really know that “2007″ is actually 2007? The Ajira plane crashed there, but did they ever tell us this was 2007?

    5. As far as the episode goes, thought some things were good and some things repetitive/contrived/cheesy (i.e. Sayid carried like Jesus, Sawyers vendetta gainst Jack)

    6. @James, think they brought back Juliet, just to tie up the story line with her. As of end of season 5 she was alive. If they didnt bring her back just to kill her, people might still wonder if she was alive somewhere which would probably not be a focus the writers wanted viewers to have. So might as well milk out one final sawyer/juliet scene and have her give the important tidbit that the bomb worked. BTW, anyone else intrigued by her final lines of dialogue? Sounded like gibberish but maybe important?

  • Dave

    Tom Shaw pointed out a few potential differences, but one that stuck out to me is Jack’s attitude. “Nothing is irreversible” isn’t exactly a S1-Jack comment.

  • natego

    Stewardess Cindy is with the Others so it has to be sometime after 2004, not WAY back in time. IMHO

  • archstanton68

    one major continuity problem -

    How have none of the Losties seen the temple? It’s a massive structure with a large perimeter wall. in all their travels around the island, they never came near it? Never looked in that direction when they were up on the hills? It would be pretty tough to miss something that large on an island that small.

  • natego

    Don’t be so sad.. in this Timeline Rose may not even have cancer.

  • Kemper

    Something interesting that caught my attention: The Lost creators are big fans of Stephen King’s The Dark Tower series, and I’ve read that they’ll be working on some kind of adaptation once Lost wraps up. *Dark Tower spoilers follow.*

    In King’s books, there’s a fair amount of hopping between different parallel realities and time frames. A child named Jake from the 1970s in our world is killed after being pushed in front of a car by a ‘man in black’. Jake wakes up another reality where he meets the gunslinger Roland.

    Roland eventually lets Jake die again by not stopping to save him from falling so that he can catch up with the man in black. Later, in another book, Roland is in New York in the ’70s and prevents Jake’s first death. This leads to a split in both Jake and Roland’s realities. They both remember the first version of events and a version where Jake didn’t die and didn’t go to Roland’s world. Nobody else is aware of the alternate time line, but the split starts to drive Roland and Jake insane.

    I’m not accusing of plagarism or anything like that. I just found it interesting considering their connection to the Dark Tower and wonder how much it inspired the Lost story?

  • Dave

    I don’t think the Island is that small. Throw in a crippling fear of the Others, and I think it makes perfect sense that they wouldn’t have seen it before.

  • Dave

    If you haven’t read EW’s interview with Darlton, check it out here: http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/02/02/lost-premiere-damon-carlton/

    It does put me at ease to have them say that there really is a plan. I didn’t like S4′s flash forwards at the time (not for the sake of disliking flash forwards; I didn’t like the world they showed us), and in hindsight it turned out to be an excellent season. I’m just going to trust that the showrunners will make this work.

  • natego

    Beware this interview does sort of take some mystery away from what we’re seeing. They point out a few things about this season you might not want to hear. No Spoilers specifically but just a heads up.

  • tenderfeet

    Ah, forgot about that. Makes sense!

  • treepeony

    Yaaay! I’m so excited to be taking part in my first Lostwatch! (i’ve been a lurker but not really a commentor.)

    Everything was really amazing and shocking but I felt a tiny bit let down. I know that was because the episode wasn’t really designed to knock me clean off my feet but still…a tiny bit bummed. I think a combination of Juliet dying (again) and the alternate 2004 universe just killed my New Lost Episode buzz.

    But, I LOVED Hiroyuki Sanada! He’s my favorite growly japanese-guy actors and he was speaking Japanese! Awesome! And contrary to what Hurley said, Lennon was pretty much translating what Mystery-San said. (Give or take a few rude Japanese words.) I’m curious to see what will happen to the Losties now that they’re trapped in the Temple with Smocke/Esau (excellent nickname!) on his way with Richard over his back.

    I also agree with everybody that Jacob at least had a hand in Sayid’s resurrection, if not two hands and feet! I think Jacob ressurected IN Sayid or as a part of Sayid but it’s entirely possible that it could just be Jacob’s last act or whatnot. The Christ parallels are fairly obvious (and yikes! What a baptisim!) but when you start using names biblical names like Jacob and Benjamin, it’s not really a surprise when Jesus figures start showing up.

    It’s also interesting how in the bible Benjamin is the son of Jacob’s favorite wife Rachel and yet in Lost, Benjamin, arguably in a son-like position, kills Jacob. Hmmmm…food for thought (or I’m just late to the speculation party!)

  • http://techland.com/2010/02/03/lost-e-mail-chain-what-the-h-bomb/ LOST E-mail Chain: What The H-Bomb? Our Reactions to the Season Six Premiere – Techland – TIME.com

    [...] (More on Time.com: LOSTwatch: A Different World(s)) [...]

  • tenderfeet

    Didn’t the smoke monster tend to show up when they were in that general region? I know it did when the French crew got near and I thought the original Losties encountered it when near there too (didn’t Locke almost get dragged underground there? Man I need to rewatch the early seasons). Then again it could just be chalked up to island size, I’m willing to roll with it.

  • ellesk

    I’m going to strongly disagree with the theory that Jacob is now inhabiting Sayid’s body for a number of reasons:
    1. This is a bit too “fighting fire with fire” – while there were quite a few people (myself included) who assumed that UnLocke was, in fact, not actually Locke but MIB-as-Locke, it was still a huge reveal when they showed Locke-in-a-box. To have Jacob then inhabit Sayid would be too redundant and too obvious. Plus, we’d be losing Sayid as a character which… I don’t wan to think about.
    2. If Jacob could inhabit bodies like MIB, why didn’t he? Why Sayid, why now?
    3. I think whatever happened to Sayid is similar to what happened to young Ben last season – I think the fact that we saw the exchange was significant. Richard’s whole “he won’t remember what happened,” “he’ll lose his innocence,” spiel could apply to Sayid as well. In fact, it may be what happened to Cindy the airhostess & the tailie children… we’ve still never been told why they seem to have just fallen right in with the Other Others… or the Indigenous Others or.. whoever they are.

    In regards to the rest of the episode… I thought it was great. A really strong comeback after a thoroughly confusing season involving time-traveling and flashes and the like. But this side-by-side reality makes sense, in a way. We got the flashbacks (which I loved… what a great way to build a character arc), the flashforwards and now the… flashsideways? Plus, who doesn’t love seeing a lot of the original Losties back together again?

    My biggest complaint would probably have to be the redundancy of the Juliet/Sawyer goodbye. We saw it once. It was good. It was enough. To have ANOTHER dramatic goodbye was just… overkill. I also just don’t love Sawyer-as-LaFleur… I miss the snarky. I want just a little of it back.

    But, I must give kudos where it’s due… the scene between Locke & Jack at the airport was spine-tinglingly good (no pun intended). Locke is such a fantastically tragic character, and I hope he gets some character resolution as his end was so, so very sad.

    One last thing – did anyone catch Darlton on Jimmy Kimmel last night? When Jimmy asked if Locke was inhabited by the MIB, they said now, although they said that it was revealed he was, in fact, Smokey McMonster. Is there then a differentiation between the two? Or is it that they don’t think most people have come to the conclusion that MIB = Smokey and so therefore don’t want to “spoil it” – thoughts?

  • tenderfeet

    Absolutely agree with regards to Ben

  • Dave

    I think MIB from the S5 finale is just another dead-but-not-buried person from the Island from that time period. Heck, maybe that’s Adam – he wasn’t buried, so Smokey just made use of the body whenever he felt like chillaxing with Jacob.

  • Dave

    Welcome to the party treepeony! It’s always good to have more brains feeding the theorycrafting :)

    I also enjoy the biblical parallels in the show… I think Jacob is ultimately going to be the Christ figure, as it looks like he goes to great lengths to put the pieces of his own death in place.

  • Tom Shaw

    True, but I find it easier to believe a single guy crash landed in a Zero, rather than some, what, Meiji era steamer running into the shore.

    Besides, having a Japanese character angry at the US for nuking Japan creates some interesting wrinkles, if in fact Esau wants to use nukes to wipe out humanity and their endless fighting.

  • http://sarmillar.wordpress.com/2010/02/03/thoughts-about-losts-final-season-premiere/ Thoughts about Lost’s final season premiere « Through The Looking Glass

    [...] Time magazine’s James Poniewozik’s recap. [...]

  • mortalfool

    Good point. I noticed that, too, and wondered, but they didn’t seem to go with it.

  • mortalfool

    That was Japanese.

  • Chaddogg

    So much to write about, so I’ll start with a couple thoughts here (unfortunately, my alt-Non-Lost work is keeping me busy, away from writing more):

    1. First, congrats to Michael Giacchino for his Academy Award nomination for the score to “Up.” What amazing work, though, in this episode — did you hear his virtual homage to Bernard Herrman (who did music for Psycho, Vertigo, and North by Northwest), with all of the almost angular sounding chords? Beautiful, and totally in keeping with the unsettling, mystery vibe of the premiere. Also, I LOVED his Danny Elfman (Tim Burton’s primary composer, including on Beetlejuice, Edward Scissorhands, and the upcoming Alice in Wonderland) tribute as the camera panned down from the 2004 flight to the ocean, to find the island submerged. Just incredible.

    2. I don’t think Desmond is time/consciousness jumping. I just think that when Jack got back, he had moved back to his seat. Which raises an interesting question — did Desmond win the around the world race? Did he ever even go on it?

    3. Related to that, don’t be so sure that characters we did not see tonight on the plane in 2004 (Michael, Walt, Ana Lucia, Eko, Libby) weren’t on the plane — maybe they were, but we just never saw them deboard/on the plane. Part of the mystery of this season will be how, precisely, lives changed if the island never existed. I think we know that Shannon is not on the plane thanks to Boone, so — did she sleep with Boone? Why didn’t she get on the plane with him? Was she in an abusive relationship? Maybe somehow Jack saved her dad in this timeline, so she wasn’t victimized by her evil stepmother? All questions to ponder.

    4. @Dave: “”Nothing is irreversible” isn’t exactly a S1-Jack comment.” I couldn’t agree with you more. I found that scene AMAZINGLY powerful between Locke and Jack. In alt-2004, Locke is a man of science (“My situation is irreversible” = accepting what science tells you), while Jack is a man of faith (“Nothing is irreversible” = a strange type of faith, but faith nonetheless…faith in there always being a way to heal). Amazing that they still find each other in alt-2004 without a plane crash, but more amazing still that they become friends (as opposed to the enemies, or friend-emies they were after 815 went down).

    5. I loved “take charge” Hurley, which reminds me: Cuse/Lindelof have always mentioned that Jorge Garcia was the first actor cast on the show. Was the reason because Hurley actually always had a larger significance (no pun intended) to the endgame of the show than his previous role as comic relief/voice of the fan?

    6. Sepinwall discusses this on his website, but everyone should TRULY re-watch the Pilot episode in light of the alt-2004 Oceanic flight. The subtle differences are amazing, and point to there being much BIGGER changes in these characters’ lives as a result of the island never existing. I may not go as far as Tom Shaw (who suggests above that Sawyer is a sheriff and Desmond a drug dealer?), but…..

    To point out a few: Hurley is lucky, and owns Clucking Chicken. Shannon doesn’t go with Boone on the plane. Cindy gives Jack one bottle of vodka, not two (as in the Pilot/original timeline). Jack spills the bottle due to turbulence (did not happen in original timeline). Haircuts are different (notably on Sawyer, Jack, and Rose). Charlie is in the back bathroom, not the front one. Desmond is on the plane.

    It will be interesting to see, this year, how profoundly the characters’ lives were changed if the Island never existed (or ceased to exist after 1977)….I mean, we notably didn’t see if Claire was or was not pregnant in alt-2004 (she was only seen in the cab with Kate, but we never saw if she was carrying a child)….

    7. For that reason, I was almost expecting John Locke to be able to walk in alt-2004. No idea why, but I did. Maybe it was his chipper attitude — Original Flavor/Timeline Locke was pretty beaten down on the flight after not being able to go on the walkabout. Maybe this John DID go on the walkabout somehow? Or maybe this John lost his legs, but NOT because his kidney-stealing father pushed him out a window?

    8. Another reason why watching the Pilot before this episode was amazing — Jack asking in last night’s episode for a pen to save Charlie, and being unable to find one. Astute watchers of the Pilot will remember Boone suggesting Jack perform a tracheotomy with a pen to save Rose, and Jack dismissively telling him to go gather pens (because Jack was a doctor and knew that such a procedure was unnecessary, and just wanted Boone to disappear).

    9. Charlie in alt-2004 = almost chokes on baggy of heroin, tells Jack he was “supposed to die.” Charlie in original timeline = chooses to drown (i.e. chokes on water) because Desmond tells him he was “supposed to die” but doing it that way would save Claire/Aaron/his friends. Interesting parallels.

    10. I’m still puzzled by the title — LA X. The space is what bothers me. Maybe it’s a visual clue — our story (like the title itself) is splitting into two parts? One (the “LA” part) is the original timeline, the other (the “X” part) is the alt-2004 timeline? Any other suggestions?

  • mortalfool

    Had it been Korean, Jin would have understood.

  • Dave

    Re: Desmond – is Widmore even alive to host the race and have a daughter for Des to fall in love with? Nuking an island tends to have the minor side effect of death.

  • shara says

    I got the feeling that perhaps both Jacob and ZombieLocke could turn into smoke monsters – which could explain why folks had such different experiences with the smoke. If they’re both similar beings, that would make sense…

  • ellesk

    Dave -
    That’s actually a really interesting theory that has never crossed my mind before. I just always assumed that it was the whole Man in White (Jacob) vs. Man in Black (Esau?) and they were in their actual corporeal forms. Although I guess that would account for why UnLocke doesn’t go back to his “original” form (ie. MIB) once the rest of the islanders realize he isn’t actually Locke.
    Though that begs the question… why is only one of them actually & physically there? And what does that say for that painting we saw in the temple where the Smoke Monster seemed to be called/directed by some Egyptian god-looking figure. Was that supposed to be Jacob? Because he didn’t seem to be able to control him.
    And while we’re on the topic of Smokey… where’s this discrepancy between the “I want to go home,” manipulative Smokey and the “judgment system” – I know Ben’s judgment was a facade, but what about Eko?

  • mortalfool

    1. Names matter.
    2. Love your “UnLocke.”

  • treepeony

    At the risk of waving my dork flag a little too vigorously, perhaps now that Jacob has been killed he has ‘become more powerful than you can ever imagine’. If Jacob has joined the ‘force’ so to speak, and is spiritually one with the Island (the same way Obi Wan Kenobi is ‘one with the force’) then it’s possible he’s become even more…well…powerful. And it’s not so much fighting fire with fire but having a ghostly omnipresent buddy to give you hints every now and again.

    Also, Richard told the others not to shoot Smokey-Locke. What if Smokey-Locke needs to be killed in the same way? What if being killed as UnLocke will set him free to go back to wherever home is? If UnLocke is killed and Smokey/MIB rejoins the force, imagine what havoc he could wreak!

  • Dave

    ellesk, that question (Smokey as judge) has been on my mind a lot also. Is his true role that as judge, so he has to play that role, or are all of his “judgments” just him figuring out if that person will help him with the loophole?
    `
    I also think an important line is when Smokey told Ben that he didn’t make him do everything.

  • Dave

    One other question, since I probably won’t get a chance to rewatch till the weekend: did anyone get a good look at whatever Bram had picked up after Smokey disappeared from the room?

  • treepeony

    Well he could have come from before Japan closed itself off to foreigners, pre-Edo era. But then again, that would make Mystery-San old and ageless like Richard Alpert and I’m getting a feeling that there is only one Richard on the island. Now that being said, I’m curious to see Jin’s reaction given that the Koreans REALLY do not like the Japanese given that whole colonial occupation and what not.

  • stcloudbus

    “BTW, anyone else intrigued by her final lines of dialogue? Sounded like gibberish but maybe important?”

    Well, she said something about getting coffee and “going Dutch,” which . . .yeah, gibberish. But it reminded me a lot of Charlotte’s “I’m not supposed to have chocolate before dinner,” which seemed like gibberish at the time, too.

    My guess is somehow that’s an alternate timeline memory/experience. We’ll see her at some point in the “2004″ storyline asking Sawyer out for coffee.

    Or it was just straight-up gibberish to clue us in that Juliet’s brain ain’t firing anymore, and she’s about to kick it.

  • natego

    I think Smokey was always the same person. He just decided who to kill based on who he needed to carry out his mission of killing Jacob.

  • treepeony

    I thought it was a bag of ashes. I could be wrong though.

  • Dave

    No, I mean the small thing he picked up off the ground. My first thought was that it was a tooth, but it seemed just a little big for a tooth.

  • archstanton68

    re: Widmore – he was on the island when the h-bomb went off, so he (and Ms. Hawking) were possibly killed in that timeline. This would mean no Faraday, but I thought Widmore had already gotten in trouble for his off-island exploits (fathering Penny), so she should still exist in alt 2004 (minus the daddy issues).

  • natego

    actually, it would make sense. thats how she knew that the bomb worked. She flashed forward to when the plane hadnt crashed, then back, so she knew she corrected the timeline.

  • archstanton68

    It was a smashed bullet that hit MIB Locke

  • ellesk

    I think it was the bullet from his gun.. it was some sort of metal, an oddly curved. I think he was sort of shocked because that meant it went through him and UnLocke wasn’t on the ground when he went to go check if he had effectively killed him.
    And then well, the semi-cheesy CGI fight happened.
    I also think – in response to someone else’s comment about why Richard didn’t want them to shoot UnLocke – that it wasn’t because he thought he was going to die… just the opposite. I think he was trying to prevent a repeat massacre such as the one that just happened in the temple.
    ACTUALLY… maybe violence is what calls the Smoke Monster? Everyone has been wondering how Ben called on the Smoke Monster to kill Keamy & crew… maybe he takes on that form as the island’s “protector” – even if he doesn’t want to – when there’s an actual, present threat. Like bullets?

  • Tom Shaw

    Bram picked up the used rifle bullet.

    It was noteworthy that the spent bullet was deformed, implying that A) it didn’t actually hit and flatten against Esau like it would a normal person, and B) it possibly was magnetically deformed passing by him. What would compasses show when used near Esau?

  • alaaaan

    just a couple points to add:

    -Anyone notice the pilot’s voice as 815 was about to land? It was the actual pilot from the Pilot. (Greg Grunberg from Heroes).

    -I think its significant that Sayid shot little Ben in ’77 and Richard took lil Ben to the Temple (I’m assuming) they did the fountain healing thing. Now Sayid had to be saved the same way. Im guessing Sayid won’t remember anything, like Ben. But unlike Ben this will somehow redeem him (from the Hell he believed he was going to) whereas Ben went to other way.

    -I found it intriguing that Jack might possibly fix Locke in 2004. Its ironic that Locke did all that stuff to stay on the Island because (at least the biggest reason) he regained the ability to walk when all along Jack could have fixed him.

    -I think the 2 timelines will converge and despite all the differences the same conclusion will occur, because whatever happens happens.

  • Tom Shaw

    No loops to complete = no reason to strand Desmond on The Island = no reason to hold the around-the-world regatta.

    Of course, who knows if Penny even exists in this timeline for Desmond to woo. Who knows if Widdmore & Hawking ever separated in the real world – or maybe Widdmore always gets his side action with Penny’s mother. No way to tell yet.

  • alaaaan

    oh and i wondered if there was significance to Charlie having his airway blocked? he died by drowning (kind of a form of airway blockage) originally. maybe despite events being altered they will still meet a similar demise as they did on the Island.

  • natego
  • Chaddogg

    @James — apropos of nothing, but the new commenting system really sucks for Lost talk — there is no way to tell with the replies what is new, etc. On the old system, where there was no replying, you could always scroll down and just see the next/new comments.

    My suggestion, Tuned-Inlanders — no reply to this comments. That way we can all read each others’ thoughts without trying to determine what we’ve already seen, etc.

  • Dave

    @Chad – I like it for the functionality (more controlled replies, and it’s easier to follow conversations), but it is frustrating to have to scan through the entire post. I was thinking that it’d be nice to RSS the comments, so that I could tell what comments were the newest.

  • shara says

    I didn’t see the aSawyer-aHurley thing as “different” – that’s how Sawyer began his con of the dude in prison, right? Acting like he was trying to protect the guy with good advice, so the guy would trust him later.

    That was the most heartbreaking scene for me – watching aSawyer looking greedily at Hurley like he was his next easy mark.

  • rosseau

    That’s interesting. I wasn’t thinking of the Dark Tower
    (spoilers follow) books yesterday, though they do have multiple universes. I was thinking of Evil Locke and Pet Sematary. But if they’re making a Dark Tower allusion, then which one of the Losties would be Roland? Since you know what happens to him, what his end his, I guess it would be Locke but Locke’s dead. Jack is more than happy to leave this behind once it’s over. Or maybe it could be Jack going on and on, not being able to find peace, always trying to solve a problem. It’s a good theory, but I hope they don’t stick with the books.

    The other J.J Abrams show, Fringe, has a few King references too. I am always reminded of the little bald men from Insomnia whenever I see the Observer and his group.

  • babyjin

    Regarding the title of the episode, I first wondered if “LA X” meant LA “ex” as in former. Because what we are seeing in LA is in the past, sort of…maybe? No, that can’t be it.

    My next thought was that the X might mean “times” like in math, making the title “LA Times.” That could work in reference to the different timelines. I don’t know, but it’s the best I have come up with so far.

  • ellesk

    I interpreted it as LA & X as in X marks the spot… which generally refers to a certain spot on an island.
    So.. LA & the Island… both “realities” or whatever they’re calling it.
    But I think it’s probably one of those things that has limitless interpretations, most of which are probably credible if not right.

  • rosseau

    Great job noticing the music as Hitchcockian. I will see the episode again of course, but will pay attention to the music.

    I don’t know if the “Nothing is irreversible” line means Jack is a man of faith. It just may be Jack being Jack, trying to solve every problem and be the hero in every situation. I would need more Jack in alt 2004–and obviously we’re going to get this–before I decide Jack has faith now. Locke in the airport seemed to be Locke on the island, but without going through the transformative experience of the island. He reminded Jack of what was important in regards to his father. I guess that walkabout must have done him some good. And I hope we see it.

    I’m still going to stick with the idea that plane Desmond was from a different time/reality, but he doesn’t know it himself.

    And Jacob visiting some of the characters at key times in their lives is important (and I don’t remember what the discussion was about that). Maybe he visited them in the alt timeline. Can we say that all non-island flashbacks/flash forwards were in one reality? Maybe the hydrogen bomb always blew up and always created new universes. Though if that is true, that would make it imposslble to keep track of everything and sort the story out.

  • lini4545

    I’m going to throw something new into the mix and TIME, you’re really going to hate this, probably delete my post, but, the “AHNK” thing is also the Scientology OT symbol as in “Operating Thetan” which is a spirit which can operate without a body……..

    I’ve also noticed other Scientology overtones throughout the show as well as other religious influences.

    When Christian said “I am Christian” – not “I’m Christian” as anyone would when saying their name, I thought that was quite significant. And you’re saying that Sayid was in a “Christ on the Cross” position, which I missed, which is also significant.

    When I saw Jacob and Smokey as Esau (SmokeE?) conversing in their cute little matching black and white outfits, I thought “Gods fighting over a piece of earth and using mankind as pawns”. I think this whole thing is about gods, religion and those forces superior to mankind and remember that Jacob made it very clear that he considered Ben, who heretofore had loomed very large, as insignificant. And, to bolster that theory, Jack and John are basically the same name and can stand for everyman.

  • lini4545

    LOL!!!!

  • chelsea15jk

    “I just wish my husband would read this blog so he would shut up during the show.”

    Ditto, except about my sister and my mom. My mom swears she hates this show yet she asks tons of questions during the show. And my sister didn’t watch season 5 so she’s trying to get to explain what happened while I’m watching the new ep. ARGH!

    Okay anyways, I LOVE Hurley!

    And Terry O’Quinn is pretty awesome. That creeper look there was SO intense.

    I was hoping we’d start getting answers right away, and I guess we sort of got one, but just more questions…

    I’m really enjoying this two universe thing, even if it is super confusing. XD

    The week is going to drag by so slowly waiting for next Tuesday.

    Also, I love the enhanced versions of LOST, but I wish they would show them at a different time…I’d rather rewatch LOST than American Idol buuuuut the family might disagree.

  • natego

    I noticed the Pilots voice too! Glad i wasnt the only one who noticed

  • scott9701

    Sayid is not Jacob. He was saved in the same manner we can assume that young Ben was saved; Richard told Kate and Sawyer that he could save Ben at the temple, but that Ben would not remember what happened (explaining Sayid’s “What happened?”) and would never be the same. So, I guess Sayid is now an Other.

    Also, I suspect that Christian is a man in black manipulation. If the man in black can hijack Locke’s body, perhaps he is the only one that can also hijack Christian’s body. Christian plays a key role in getting Locke off the island at the wheel, and the man in black needed Locke to come back dead so that he had the body of someone with considerable clout with Richard and Ben to hijack, which he needed in order to gain access to Jacob (and kill him).

    We also see Christian in the cabin, presumably after the circle of ash has been broken. If Christian is the man in black, it leaves some interesting possibilities for the capacity in which Claire makes her return in the original timeline.

  • Dave

    The reason I think Sayid’s resurrection and Ben’s healing are different is the way Lennon reacted to Sayid. That might have been my favorite part of the episode – one of the “in the know” people being surprised by something. After seeing how the water heals people, he had assumed Sayid was dead. Jack didn’t find a pulse and magical TV-CPR didn’t even bring him back. We all saw how Richard reacted to seeing Locke possibly resurrected. It’s obviously something that doesn’t just happen :)

    Man, I can’t wait till next week.

  • profdante

    Yay! It’s back! And so big that they had to create two – count ‘em, two – shows in one!

    Enjoying reading through all the comments here.. lots to talk about. But in the immortal words of Locke-OriginalFlavor: “I’m gonna have to watch that again.” But just a couple of quick thoughts:

    1) First, my big thought: what are the implications of the bomb going off in 1977 and seemingly sinking the Island? Who else does that effect? For instance, did this wipe out Dharma? What about Richard and Ben and Ellie and Dr. Chang in that timeline? Did they die/drown? What about Widmore? Had he already been off the island and had fathered Penny? But with no island, then there’s nothing for him to be obsessed over. So no sending Desmond around the world? And with no Ellie, then no Daniel Faraday? No Danielle Rousseau? No Numbers? Augh, the implications quickly spin out of control.

    2) Second, my smaller thought: Is there any significance to the fact that the murky muddy pool of water that they tried to use to save Sayid looked very similar to the murky muddy water that Ben “flushed” last season in order to summon the smoke monster?

  • walle1

    One little quibble I had was with the rocket the Other Others sent up. It didn’t go terrible high up so for Richard to see it at that angle that clearly the temple would have to be right next door to the statue.
    Lazy effects i guess.

    Anyhow, about the two timelines, is it possible that they’re not actually divergent? Maybe once they’ve settled things in 2007 it’ll reset to the new 2004 storyline. I’m not basing that on anything, it’s just a thought I had while watching the episode.

  • scott9701

    Dave -

    First, I don’t think “resurrection” is the best way to describe Sayid’s salvation (Christ imagery aside); he wasn’t dead when they first put him in the spring, and he wasn’t dead when they brought him out (Miles could tell).

    Instead, it’s possible that Sayid took longer to cure because the water wasn’t clear, which apparently is not how it’s supposed to be, and that may be what prompted surprise when he eventually woke up.

    Profdante (41) makes an interesting comment about the similarity of the appearance of the spring water to the water in the cave where Ben summons Smokey; taken with the comment that “there are risks” involved in trying to save Sayid, perhaps Sayid is not going turn out to be a faithful Other. He might be contaminated or something. Who knows?

  • storysleuth

    A thought on the ”variables”… perhaps LA X means X stands for the variables (like in algebra) in possible outcomes with implications for all timelines.
    *
    Which ”truth” do you believe? Eloise Hawking tells Desmond in an early episode that the universe has a way of course correcting – destiny/fate can’t be avoided but can be achieved through different circumstances – OR -
    as Jacob says – you can always make choices that change the course of events… but does it change the outcome?
    *
    In alt2004, some events are the same but others are different, indicating that choices the characters make in this timeline have already and will continue to affect the course of events… leading to what? More progress towards Jacob’s so-called END?
    *
    About Sayid: he was not healed exactly like Ben. The waters were tainted and did not heal the wound on the spiritual leader’s hand. The others warn that they can perform the ritual, but there may be consequences. Jack decides to go ahead anyway – another choice that affects the story. What does this mean for Sayid’s resurrection?
    *
    SMOKEE: I’m confused. Doesn’t Smokee reside in the bowels of the Temple, at a level lower than the current Others are occupying? Or does he just pop up anywhere from underground?

  • adriaezn

    Anyone know the record for the most comments on a Tuned In blog posting? Does this comment contribute to that record even though it is in fact about the record?

  • Dave

    I think Sayid was definitely dead. Mystery-San declared him dead after watching the drowning pool not save him, and Jack reinforced that by checking for a pulse and trying TV-CPR. Throw in how Lennon reacted to Sayid waking up, and that qualifies as back-from-the-dead in my book.

    I have a feeling the Others are very, very familiar with death :)

  • natego

    I’ve seen this blog with well over 100 posts before..

  • Dave

    I didn’t take the time to completely comb the high-hitting topics (like Idol), but a quick search for “Lostwatch” in the blog archives brings us last year’s finale episode, which had 116 comments: http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/2009/05/14/lostwatch-everything-that-rises-must-converge-eventually-right/

    I was surprised to see that the Through The Looking Glass Lostwatch didn’t have more comments, but I started getting pretty absorbed in the comments of other posts (I didn’t start watching Lost till the start of S4). James maybe a fun project for a slow blog time sometime after the series finale would be to pick out some old theories that turned out to be laughably off or surprisingly close.

  • natego

    Something just hit me… How does Jacob know about Jin’s experience with the French team at the Temple?

    Does this mean Jacob is the smoke monster? Or, if not, how was he watching?

    Perhaps both Jacob and the MIB can become the Smoke monster?

  • denisemorris

    @natego

    I think Jacob just knows everything. He’s like God. I don’t think Jacob can be the smoke monster or the smoke monster can be Jacob. I think they’re two opposing omniscient-like forces. Although if we go with a God/Satan type theory, Jacob is perhaps more powerful or omniscient than Smokey.

  • storysleuth

    So – who knows something about Einstein’s theory of parallel universes? Can the same You really live in both – or many? In alt2004, Locke tells Jack the airline lost his father’s body, not his father, and how could they possibly know where he is?… implying a mysteriously wise Locke knows something about the parallel possibilities.

    Thoughts, anyone?

  • http://features.metacritic.com/features/2010/lost-review-season-6-episode-1/ Episode Review: Lost, “LA X” – Metacritic

    [...] Time [...]

  • Dave

    I was just rereading the comments from the S5 finale, and there was plenty of talk about the God/Satan parallels that are apparently between Jacob and Smokey. I don’t know if this is quite the venue to get into the theology of it, but it does make sense to me :)

  • adriaezn

    116, eh? We’re so close! A million of James’s dollars to whoever is the 117th commenter!

  • polarbearzfart

    Am I the only one that has been watching this stupid show for years to learn what a polar bear was doing in the middle of a jungle. i dont think the writers even know at this piont why they did that an i am afraid I will never know the answer. Lost is Dumb

  • archstanton68

    the Dharma initiative was experimenting with animals, which got loose when the DI was wiped out. Hence, the DI-branded shark and the polar bears. season 3 had several episodes that explained that.

  • adriaezn

    The polar bear was a dharma initiative experiment, yes? It had to press a certain number of buttons at the right time/right order to receive food or else the buttons would electrocute the bear…the bears (more than likely) escaped when Ben eradicated much of the initiative…in the world of Lost, that’s as close as you’re going to get to a real, solid answer…I don’t get your complaint…

  • shara says

    Yeah – what they said – Dharma was doing animal experiments, examining (among other things) their adaptability when placed in areas to which they are not native. I also seem to remember an implication that a polar bear had been used to turn the frozen donkey wheel at some point, since the polar bear skeleton with Dharma tags turned up in the Tunisian desert…

  • samposts

    I think that Juliet’s words are really telling as to what we are actually watching.
    I think that Smocke’s dialogue at the end is really indicative of what we’re going to see as well.
    Is Smokey’s home the Temple? It’s certainly somewhere he can’t go.
    He said he was disappointed in the people on the beach – was he their leader at some point? Did they betray him? Or is he just offering his judgement as it appears he has done before?
    And when was Richard in chains? Can’t wait for the story on that one.

    The writers pushed it on this epidode – and I’m really glad they did. At this point I trust them and am really enjoying the new tone. No one can argue that it wasn’t completely captivating!
    I’ve never been so confused – always had questions, but never so confused. Regardless, I’m along for the ride.

  • kat

    I got the very strong and unpleasant feeling that the John Locke in the plane landing safely in the new reality is UnLocke/Smockey…

  • adriaezn

    So what are the odds that Miles, Faraday, and Charlotte exist in the new-2004 timeline…not good, right?

  • archstanton68

    Miles and Charlotte should still exist since they were part of the DI group that Chang told to evacuate prior to the incident.

    As for Faraday, he hadn’t been born yet and his mother was on the island when jughead went off.

  • Dave

    So lots of radiation + pregnant woman with a baby who’s going to already be a genius = super hero level genius??? :) The new nemesis for the ARG timeline is going to be Evil Daniel trying to take over the world!

  • denisemorris

    So here is something I didn’t notice at all last night, but that someone posted in the comments on another Lost blog I read: Apparently Sun and Jin aren’t married in the Flight 815 timeline. The security guard calls her Ms. Paik, and neither of them are wearing wedding rings.

    Can anyone confirm or deny this? I haven’t had a chance to rewatch yet. If that’s true–crazy!!!

  • neen86

    Good call. I didn’t watch closely enough last night to determine if they were wearing wedding rings, but I did hear the security guar refer to Sun as ‘Ms. Paik’. I thought it was odd at the time, but forgot about it until you brought it up. There was so much to take in!

  • jeia56

    Here goes:

    1) I think it’s safe to say that this was the best season premiere of the series (does the Pilot really count as a season premiere?). The hook at the end of the first scene (island underwater, what the F&^%$#$^7k?) was probably the best hook of any episode ever. Honestly, if the episode had consisted of that scene and then an hour and 50 minutes of dancing squirrels I would have been satisfied.

    2) What’s up with Desmond? Is it simply that because the island somehow “sunk” his boat never crashed there, he somehow ended up on the Oceanic Flight and simply recognized Jack from their stadium encounter? If so, then why would he randomly show up in Jacks seat and then disappear? Is he the same time traveling, reality jumping now, I guess, man that we saw in “The Constant” and that one episode in season 3? Faraday’s variable, if you will. Is he somehow going to be the catalyst that causes the two timelines to converge? Will they converge? Could he somehow now be an agent of Jacob, working to subtly affect the alt reality on Jacob’s behalf? If that’s the case, is he governed by the same mysterious rules that govern the Jacob-Smocke conflict? That would kind of explain his teasing appearance to Jack. He can’t simply spell it out for him.

    3) I don’t if anyone else figured this out yet,but in the old testament, Benjamin is of one the twelve sons of Jacob, and in Greek mythology, Linus was any of three sons of Apollo. Important? I think so.

    4) Speaking of Ben, I wonder what sort of plan he’s got cooking in that little head of his. You just know that once the initially shock of killing Jacob and his body disappearing wore off that he was already formulating some sort of trickery.

    5) In “The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham”, when Locke is in the hospital and Widmore pays him a visit, Widmore said something like “There’s a war coming John, and if your not back when that happens the wrong side is going to win.” I guess we’re going to see that war now. Also, anybody else suspect that Widmore might be working for Smokey? Could Widmore have known about the MIB’s plot to assume Locke’s form and helped him by ensuring that Locke got back to the island? Mathew Abadon’s character said in that episode that it was his job to ensure that people got where they needed to be, well he was driving when he got killed, which set off the chain reaction which eventually led to Locke’s eventual death and return to the island. Maybe Widmore is/was working for smokey all along.

  • rosseau

    My next contribution in surpassing 116 comments.

    Questions:

    1)What is Jacob? Isn’t he a demigod and can he really be killed? Why did MIB assume that Jacob was dead if he is immortal? Did he have to die in the fire to never come back? This taking possesion of Sayid’s body theory kind of means there is no free will: Jacob knew he was going to die and also knew Sayid would get shot and give him another body so either Jacob can see the future or everything has been determined, or has happened mutliple times. But we already knew that with WHH so perhaps that is not a big deal.

    2) Where is home for the Man in Black? Is it Earth and the island was basically the circle of ash keeping him prisoner? Is it Paradise, as in he is one of God’s fallen Angels? Is it Hell? Maybe MIB is not Lucifer himself but a confederate? I’m thinking of a Rosemary’s Baby type scenario where the Devil or one of his minions impregnates an innocent to give birth to the AntiChrist. Perhaps this is Aaron. This may be an old speculation, so forgive me.

    3) What will we see in the alt timeline? Just different outcomes for the gang or a grander purpose? Well surely that but what is the purpose? What happens to Charlie and the other dead people who are alive in this universe? Could Hurley have been talking to alt-Charlie instead of his ghost last season?

  • supersawyer

    Oi everyone.

    - If anyone watched the Final Chapter special before the premier, there was an interesting line spoken by the narrator. While he talking about Jacob and his rival, the narrator says something along the lines of “There is a special set of rules they must follow”. We have heard the same about Ben and Widmore countless times. Connection? Could it be the same rules?

    - I like the different ideas about Christian’s role going around, but I have my own. I don’t think Christian played a role on the island before the crash, but definitely after. His alliance, however, I think belongs with Jacob. The first time we see Christian in the cabin, he says he speaks on behalf of Jacob. When Locke leaves the island, Christian tells him to say hello to his son. There are countless other instances where Christian was a positive source, not malevolent (like when we see Smokey become Alex). I don’t think Smokey is Christian, but does play a bigger role.

    - While we are on Smokey, lets go way back to season one. Remember when Locke first confronted the Monster and “saw into the eye of the island”? Could this have been Jacob’s rival finding his target for the first time? When he found the man (Locke) who would be able to allow him to carry out his thousand year mission?

    - The guitar case blew my mind. Not because what was inside (even though I was surprised), but because of the meaning of it. Jacob giving that case to Hurley BEFORE the 316 crash means he knew all of this was going to happen. Jacob knew he would die, that Sayid would be shot, that the Super Others would capture Jack and crew. So how far ahead can Jacob see?

    One of my teachers constantly tells us that our stories need to not be just linear (the story starts at A and ends at B), but expand in all directions. No show does that better than Lost, and the alternate time-line is an amazing way to do it. About the alternate time-line:

    - I like the 2004 flashes. Sure there are differences, but I can live with it. Everyone is saying how things are different though. My thoughts on this can be summed up in one word: Jacob. Think back to the season five finale where we saw the flashbackes of Jacob visiting the Oceanic Six. Who’s to say those are the only people he visited? What if he visited Michael, Walt, Shanon, Eko, etc. in ways that made them all get on Oceanic 815. Now, if we assume that there is no Faraday in this time-line (because his parents were dead), then doesn’t it make sense that there is no Jacob? If you destroy the body, the soul goes too. If you blow up an island, wouldn’t it’s soul go too? If Jacob can’t visit people, maybe that would explain why things are different.

    - While we’re talking about differences, what about Sawyer? S4 was about Locke’s transformation (from a broken man to leader of the Others), S5 showed us a Jack driven by Faith rather than Science, and now S6 gives us a whole new Sawyer. Do you think the original, con-man, loner, un-driven Sawyer could have taken out four Super Others on his own? Sawyer is going to make several game changing decisions over this season.

    - Things that I liked but don’t have time to expand on: the Richard in chains back story, Jacob appearing to Hurley, the tallie kids and air hostess reappearing, the Air Marshal escorting Kate being hit in the head (like he was in the original time-line), Miles’s super power going to work on Juliet but not Sayid, Ben’s dumbfoundedness, and, last but not least, Locke and Jack’s exchange in the airport. That is a scene we are definitely going to have to revisit when this is all over.

    Take it easy

  • adriaezn

    I’m comment 117!!! Hooray!

  • jebussaveme

    don’t know if this is important but the two things lost by oceanic flight 815 in alt reality were jack’s father body and locke’s knife. both things smokey/locke has used on the island. wasn’t locke/smokey cleaning one of those knives after ben killed jacob.

  • shara says

    So I’m thinking about the “nice to see you without the chains comment” – could ZombieLocke be meaning the chains that richard had used to imprison him (him being ZombieLocke, Esau, Smokey, whatever). Maybe Richard’s job had involved guarding his prison, and ZombieLocke is saying how nice it is to see Richard with the chains THAT HAD BEEN PROTECTING RICHARD FROM ZombieLocke?!?!

  • storysleuth

    As many posts suggest, Jacob and Smokee are deities – and it seems they are stuck in a job that at least one of them wants to end now. Given the Egyptian references, they should be happily living in the DUAT – the afterlife or heaven located in the Milky Way – but instead are bound to earth to manage a task that never seems to end.

    Do they have to babysit the destiny of mankind until it’s over? As demi-gods their ”covenant” has it’s set of rules, obviously, that we are just starting to learn about.

    Jacob is concerned with weeding out the good souls to manipulate for his purposes, convinced that he can help to ”course correct” bad choices by the players and change outcomes for the better. He believes in the goodness of mankind and the possibilities offered through free will.

    Smokee is not convinced. He is sick of the game and his responsibility and is not necessarily evil – his job as judge is to seek out and destroy the bad. He is summoned whenever violence or ill-intent (evil) surface. We see the smoke monster pause to assess the prey before striking. Maybe the fact that Smokee wants to kill Jacob is a hint that Jacob has gone off his original mission and is doing bad things for which Smokee would normally punish him for.

    Perhaps Smokee was tricked into the covenant by Jacob and now has to play by impossible rules to get out. I think Jacob is changing the rules and it was he who trapped the disembodied Smokee in the cabin and surrounded it with ash so he couldn’t escape. It was Smokee who spoke and asked Locke to help him in the cabin, because Jacob is trying to prevent Smokee from interfering with his plans and the people he decides are worth protecting.

    Now that Smokee found his loophole, I guess we’ll see where good and evil really reside. :)
    Any thoughts?

  • jazzpiano8

    Here is my wild theory, but I don’t know if it makes sense. The Island represents a place where good and evil battle and the souls of everyone on Oceanic Flight 815 are stuck there. Perhaps something like Hades or Purgatory. Jacob represents a Jesus figure and Smoke-Monster represents Satan. When Smoke-Locke refers to wanting to go home, he is perhaps referring to hell. Jacob and the temple others are there to guide and protect those stuck on the island to heaven? Now with Jacob dead (but not really dead), he is no longer there to protect, and Smoke-Locke can take control.

    Perhaps instead of 2 timelines, we have the mind and bodies of Jack, Kate, etc in reality, but their souls are still trapped on the island. Or maybe everyone is already dead and this is one bad trip. Who knows? =)

    That’s the fun of this! I love reading these theories!

  • mortalfool

    Hey. I like your theories. You could be on to something with the body and soul duality. Yes, so much fun to read the theories. We’ll have to go back after the last episode and reread them for fun.

  • lini4545

    On the back of Rose’s “Weekly Woodsman”, there’s a picture of a space ship and I didn’t catch the whole caption but the last two words were “out there”.

    Maybe somebody mentioned this but wouldn’t they all have radiation sickness?

  • lini4545

    Does Hurley look less heavy to any of you?

  • lini4545

    When Sayid woke up, Lennon said “O my God”. Significant?

  • danman0407

    Loved the premiere. Raised a lot of questions, yet solved a few as well! Smokey/ MIB is such an interesting character, and I can’t wait to see how he develops.

    I’m starting to wonder about the significance of Vincent in season 6. I think there are a few signs throughout the seasons displaying the dog’s importance:

    1) In the Pilot episode, there is a scene where we see the Losties walking through the jungle, but through Vincent’s eyes. It seems almost like Vincent is spying on their activity for a reason.

    2) In Jacob’s cabin, there is a painting shown on the floor during the third, fourth and fifth season of a sheep dog with man arms…Perhaps it’s a half dog half man? Is it possible that throughout the first few seasons Vincent was really Jacob or Smokey in disguise, casually watching all actions made by the losties…?

    3) During the online extra scenes that were on ABC.com, there is a clip where Christian calls Vincent over to him. Christian asks Vincent to go over to Jack and wake him up, telling the dog; “He has work to do”.

    I sure hope Vincent’s importance comes into play sometime this season, I look forward to it!

  • michelle815

    Right then! It’s ok for you lot overseas who got to watch it – i’ve got to wait until 9pm tomorrow night in England – the wait is killing me!!! However, I have enjoyed reading this page, and even though I now know what to expect, I am still every bit excited!!! Ooh, the thought of alternate timelines sounds amazing!

  • http://charliedale.wordpress.com charliedale

    Did anyone else see the book Hurley picked up from beside the skeleton of the French team member who’s arm was ripped off?
    I was streaming the show in pretty bad quality, but it looked like it was by Kierkegaard.
    I don’t know a great deal about Kierkegaard, but what I have read does seem to have some interesting parallels with some of the ideas/themes within the show.
    I just wondered if anybody other than me had attached some significance to this, or if it’s just another red herring. It seemed, to me at least, to have been placed there quite pointedly…

  • gnatalby

    It was a french copy of Fear and Trembling, which is a sort of Flash Sideways version of Abraham’s sacrifice of Isaac.

  • natego

    Re: Christian, you should consider that all of this very well could have been the MIB manipulating everyone to ultimately get Jacob killed. He was tricking people into thinking he was working for Jacob (“You have no idea what I’ve been through to get here” is his line to Jacob later). Perhaps you were tricked as well? :)

  • natego

    more likely that Richard was a slave on the Black Rock. They probably met when the ship Jacob and MIB saw came to shore.

  • Dave

    I think the rules that Ben referenced are different from the rules between Smokey and Jacob. I think Ben and Widmore saw some evidence (a la Faraday’s journal) that the two of them will have some final battle on the Island, and the rules Ben referenced are those that say you can’t change the future. Maybe Ben interpreted their collective future-knowledge differently and thought Alex would be there, so he thought Alex would be off-limits to Widmore’s mercenaries.
    `
    As for Christian, I consider his status very much so up in the air, leaning on the side of Smokey. Smokey lied explicitly as Locke (told Richard he was going to thank Jacob for making him the way he is), so why wouldn’t he lie explicitly as Christian? One thing I’d like to do, but I’m not sure if I have the time, is go through Lostpedia and check all the various Smokey appearances and see if they all work to Smokey’s goal of killing Jacob. My immediate recollection is incomplete, but what I can remember does.
    `
    Re: guitar case; I interpreted all of Jacob’s actions off-Island that they showed us in The Incident as him putting the pieces of his own death in place. He was making sure that everyone who needed to be on the Island when he died would be on the Island. That’s why I found Jacob’s comment to Hurley so interesting; that an old friend grew tired of his company. The obvious subject there is Smokey, but what if he means Ben? That he really did like Ben, but he couldn’t appear to him or directly guide him so that Ben would eventually stab him when Smokey provoked him to.

  • Dave

    Re: Desmond – Someone on Twitter this morning double-checked and confirmed that there’s definitely a wedding ring on Desmond’s hand in the plane. That doesn’t answer whether he was jumping between realities or what, but I’m starting to suspect that he needs to find Jack in both realities as his Constant, as Penny probably doesn’t exist in the alternate reality.

  • Dave

    I’ll reiterate that I think Sayid is dead and that Jacob will be back as Jacob, though I don’t really have any evidence aside from my gut interpreting what we saw differently than how others interpreted it.
    `
    I think that home for Smokey is either the temple, or the temple is what he uses to get home (I really hope it’s not somehow supposed to teleport him to another planet/universe/dimention/whatever… ugh).

  • Dave

    I think the fact that Lennon was surprised was very significant. He’s probably very familiar with death and how the Island works, and so him showing surprise intrigues me the most.

  • natego

    @dave the only thing about this is that if the temple was his home, how was he there as smokey when he ripped the French guys arm off, unless that was Jacob and not the MIB. I don’t think home for him is anywhere on the island.

  • natego

    one other thing:

    When Sayid wakes up and says “What happened?” , it was not with his normal accent. Perhaps Sayid is inhabited by a former character… Charlie perhaps??

  • mortalfool

    Today’s New York Times has a good article plus a very helpful, carefully arranged time line showing the chronology without all the backing and forthing.

  • Dave

    Maybe there’s some line of demarcation in the walls that keeps Smokey from getting in. Or there are more than one Smokeys (I don’t like the theory that one is Jacob, but I don’t really have any evidence against it)… the security system and the evil dude who hates Jacob.
    `
    So many questions, and still so much time before next Tuesday!

  • madmatt86

    The most important thing about the 2004 “reality” is that there… Jacob never died. Which means MiB’s loophole didn’t work out, not there, and thus probably not anywhere.

    FakeJohn being the smoke monster wasn’t a revelation, ever since we knew Ben got played by him. Ben did have the talk with his “daughter” or rather “the smoke” before that.

    So in the end it all comes down to the Faustian theme: FakeJohn is evil only by name and his deeds unwillingly lead to good things. Jacob knows that, so he doesn’t stop him from doing bad things which makes him “bad” himself. Nobody wins or loses, everything in between is just “progress”, as Jacob put it.

  • Dave

    What if the reason Richard told them not to shoot was because Smokey can’t attack those loyal to the Island unless they attack him first?

  • archstanton68

    I haven’t seen this mentioned here, but I saw a post elsewhere that made me think.

    Claire was conspicuously shown only from the neck up. We’ve heard how important Aaron was/is, and it’s looking more and more like Christian is pretty important in the grand scheme of things. What are everyone’s thoughts on Claire not being pregnant in alt 2004?

  • jimmycrack

    Well, it was mentioned last season or sometime before that the actual temple itself is a quarter mile or so removed from the temple wall. So even if Smokey makes the wall area his home, he’s still quite a distance from the Temple proper. I’m guessing, based on the Others’ reaction to the news of Jacob’s death, that Jacob himself was instrumental in keeping the Smoke Monster away from the Temple.

  • mavericku812

    Here is what you have to remember though. If in fact the island was sunk and Jack does remember him, that would more than likely mean that they did have that meeting at the stadium. Which would also mean that Desmond could have taken his trip in that race around the world. Or did he? Because in that alternate reality would Widmore have survived an H-Bomb on the island? So Penny may not even exist in this alternate reality.
    By this island being in the ocean it definately would mean that everything and everyone could have changed. Remember the rule of 6 degrees of seperation. The ripple of one thing being different in our past could have not only changed our lives but everyone around us.
    Just some food for thought. : )

  • natego

    Sounds good to me jimmy. I think you’re probably right that the temple is his home then, considering how badly they need to keep him out of there.

  • mortalfool

    Trying to connect Hurley’s lottery number — 4 8 15 16 23 42 — with the flight numbers.

  • denisemorris

    I watched the premiere again last night and I loved it so much more than the first time around. I think I spent so much time trying to figure out what was going on the first time. But this time I just appreciated the characters and what we know about them (and what we might find out!) as they landed in LAX.

    That’s what makes Lost so very, very awesome.

  • Mipiace

    @charliedale: You might like taking a look at ew.com’s detailed and lengthy Lost recap. He goes in to a very good analysis of the literary and philosophical references found in the episode (and Lost in general) with Kierkegaard included.

  • mortalfool

    Oceanic 815 original episode and this week’s episode shown side-by-side http://www.buzzfeed.com/dustind/lost-oceanic-815-scenes-side-by-side-em8/

  • madmatt86

    That sounds very likely. It also goes along with what others have said already, that Smokey judges people before killing them. So he can only kill those that are deemed “naughty”, while those relying on violence and have an intend to kill, in this case killing Smokey, are automatically “evil” (he didn’t attack first. Hell, he didn’t even attack Jacob, which is the whole point of season5)

    It’s funny to see in that context that so far most people aren’t sold on Jacob being the good guy/Smokey being evil. Which is probably a hard lesson learned over 5 seasons of LOST :D

  • trilm

    LA X – Reference to time travel

    X-Axis and Y-Axis for time travel. What ever X-axis must represent I am not sure.

    Maybe:

    Distance = y-axis

    Time = x-axis

    http://www.blurtit.com/q2514102.html

  • candymanrtc1991

    Only just got to watch this episode last night with living in UK but here are my thoughts.

    1) Anyone else noticed the sound of smokey being similar to the clanking of chains? So i’m thinking MIB was refering to himself being out of chains when he speaks to Richard at the end.

    2) I’m thinking that there is going to be a BIG twist at the end which may be that MIB is the ‘good guy’ and Jacob is realy the ‘bad guy’ which may be why after Jacob’s death the background at the end of the show is now white with the LOST written in black instead of the prodominant colour being black…a shift in the equlibrium of good against evil?

    3) I think its significant that Jacob ignored Ben and effectively Ben couldn’t “see” Jacob in conjunction to Hurley being able to “see” Jacob. Hurley was also the one who saw the cabin which Locke and Ben couldn’t find.

    4) As someone mentioned above Abadon tells Locke his job is to “get people to where they are going” which is why I am thinking Widmore and Abadon etc are working for MIB as he tells Ben he just wants to get home.

    5) Alot of people are mentioning that Desmond and Jack recognising each other and saying it would be from the Stadium. HOWEVER the main reason Desmond was at the Stadium was to train for the race which is hooked on his drive for the approval of Widmore for Penny. If the Island was blown up none of this would have happened as Widmore would be dead and Penny would also either not be born OR woudln’t have the ‘daddy’ issues which is the main reason Desmond’s relationship with her leads to him partaking the race.

    6) I also think there is too much focus on Desmond’s arrival and dissapearance and his interaction with Jack for Desmond to not be ‘unstuck’ in time still. It is a little coninsidential Desmond appears next to Jack as soon as they have passed over where the island should have been.

    7) Doesn’t seem to important currently but did anoyne else notice that previously Rose was the one scared during the turbulance but in this episode she was the one who calmed Jack down such as “you can let go now”.

    8) Anyone have any theories to the significance of Smokeys phobea of ash?

    [Spoiler for Donnie Darko]
    Im sure some of you have seen the film Donnie Darko which also focuses on an event in the past being changed which creates a temporary parallel universe that exists only long enough for the change to be corrected. In Donnie Darko they have a person who is unstuck from time and able to change the events…similar to Desmond…and they have key characters such as the teacher and the peadophile manipulating events so that the change can be corrected.

    —not saying LOST is stealing ideas, I just find it interesting—

    I was overall abit dissapointed with the episode, but I think thats mainly due to the buildup i’d created in my own mind. The reunion with characters on the plane was very powerfull especialy the interaction between Jack and Locke. Was great to see familar faces such as Artz (who looks scarily like my old maths teacher!) and Charlie who being a brit has to get my fan votes.

    I’m not keen on the new arrival of the nerdy translator to the Japanese guy who seems to be power-tripping and I find the fact he is being translated pointlessly annoying but mabey there will be some significance.

    I still think LOST is having its laughs from watching the fans minds overheat and I think its brilliant after 5 seasons they still have the power to do that!

  • lynneking

    I have a theory that the island may be “The Lost Island of Atlantis.The island moves, has healing abilities and other supernatural and/or scientific properties such as the electro-magnetic force that The Dharma Int. use to build The Hatch. The broken statue of the foot could indicate another race, one with super powers or intelligence that The Atlantians were rumored to have. Jacob and the MIB could be, not Demi-gods but the last of the Atlantian race.
    Let me know if anyone else has had this thought. Thanks Lynne

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