Jay Leno: Seabiscuit or War Admiral?

Jimmy Kimmel posted the entirety on his youtube page if you want to link to that…

The most interesting recent development is the response by NBC, basically blaming Conan for the whole thing:

http://www.tvguide.com/News/NBC-Conan-Failure-1013694.aspx

They made some pretty low blows, and I think just made themselves look like jerks in the process. More of them NOT taking responsibility for stuff that they screwed up. I think that was a bad move on the part of NBC.

Done! And thanks!

I don’t think that I’d call Leno the villain here either but he’s a co-conspirator or at best a passive enabler. He doesn’t have to muscle Conan out. Conan didn’t cause this situation. NBC is the real villain here but Leno is agitating the situation by playing along with them.

He doesn’t have to take back the tonight show. Neither is he absolutely entitled to the 11:30 time slot. He doesn’t have to accept it if offered either. Jay’s not stupid. He knows that late night exists between 11:30 and 1:30 and you can only cram so many shows in those two hours before someone gets squeezed. Just because NBC offers him the time slot, there’s nothing requiring him to accept it and shove his old show out of the way. You’d think that he’d have more respect for the institution that he helmed for nearly 2 decades.

That may have been the most brutal televised assasination in history.

So many questions:

1) Who at NBC/Leno was responsible for letting Kimmel on? A night or so after Kimmel did an ENTIRE EPISODE in character as Leno, completely RIPPING on Leno? In the words of Seth Meyers and Amy Poehler: “Really?!? You thought that was a good idea?!? Really?!?”

I mean, not only is Kimmel a competitor who is LOVING this opportunity to rip on NBC….and not only is Leno disfavored amongst many comedians like Kimmel (who has publicly stated that he doesn’t like Leno’s comedy and thought Dave was the rightful heir to Carson’s seat)….but Kimmel is pretty much regarded in comedy circles as one of the BEST celebrity roast comics in the business (the undisputed best? Jeffrey Ross). How do you put a guy who’s STRENGTH is roasting people on Leno’s show, and lob him softball questions that COMPLETELY let him tee off on Leno?

2) As you point out James, the amazing thing? The Leno crowd LAUGHS at all of it….they never do the “ooooh” noise as if they disapprove. They honest to God LAUGH at this. Incredible. Leno’s own audience turning against him.

3) NBC/Hulu hasn’t/won’t post the clip — a telling sign of how embarassing this was for them.

4) If you’re Leno, do you even want the Tonight Show at this point? It seems to me the well has been pretty thoroughly poisoned….every other late night host is slamming you, industry people (who never really liked Leno) now actively loathe him for what he’s doing to Conan, you’re being seen as a usurper who doesn’t deserve the show, celebrities may choose to avoid you and promote their show on Conan’s (almost certain) new show wherever that may be (FOX)…..and most importantly, you’ve forever sullied the chair of Carson.

How do you get up from that? Can you even get up from that?

5) The best thing to watch now is Letterman, who is clearly RELISHING his chance after 17 years or whatever to strike back at Leno, and is doing so MERCILESSLY.

6) At the same time, kudos to Craig Ferguson for using his opening to briefly mention the late-night shenanigans, but then immediately transition to encourage folks to donate to the Red Cross efforts in Haiti.

Geez. I guess the implication there is that if Conan’s ratings were better then they wouldn’t be offering his show/time-slot back to Jay. Talk about chicken hearted. If Conan was that stubborn and unwilling to broaden his appeal why did they offer him the Tonight Show in the first place? Conan wasn’t a stranger to them. They knew who he was, how he operated, and what his comedy style was. Saying this is his fault is beyond spurious.

By the way, James — Hulu is not down. NBC/Leno is just refusing to post the video. This is THAT MUCH of an embarassment to them….

Put another way: Leno’s being amoral, not immoral. He’s not being a villain here, but he’s not being a mensch, either. He’s treating it like business, a competitive business, where you take advantages where you can get them. Which is fine, why shouldn’t he?
But it’s at odds with his self-presentation in his monologues. That makes him a phony. And a phony is a bad thing for a late-night comic to be, because audiences rely on a guy like Leno to have a finely tuned B.S. detector.

Wow, nice job, Jimmy Kimmel! That rocked. One of the most amusing things about all of this is that Leno doesn’t seem to get that the other comics aren’t just making fun of NBC, they’re making fun of him, too.

I can presently get nothing to play on Hulu, and as of this a.m. Hulu tweeted that the site is down:

Yup, Hulu is down. And we're working to resolve the issue asap.—
  (@hulu) January 15, 2010

If NBC has pulled or does pull this episode specifically, I will certainly call them out on it, but it looks like a site-wide thing as far as I can see.

If Hulu isn’t down then there are other internet issues out there somewhere that are preventing them from streaming video this morning. None of the clips I try on Hulu are working this morning. I’m in Chicago…

I see an entry for the Jay Leno Show from yesterday and the length looks right so I don’t think they’ve axed the clip.

Huh – I’ve been trying to play stuff on Hulu all morning and have had no luck…

Amoral, not Immoral. Yeah, that’s a good way to describe Leno and what appears to be happening here. It’s still pretty gross to watch. NBC seems to love him. He knows that he can get whatever he wants from NBC at the moment given his standing with the network and all the protections that are built into his contract for the Jay Leno Show. It would be the decent thing to do to leave Conan alone and work with NBC to find another outlet. Isn’t he the guy who claims that he lives on his standup money and banks his Tonight Show paychecks? I can’t imagine that money could be that great of a motivator for him anymore.

Hulu is back up, for those of you who prefer it.
http://www.hulu.com/watch/120783/the-jay-leno-show-thu-jan-14-2010#s-p1-so-i0

James,

How about Craig’s performance of late? He’s been killing it as usual, putting things into proper perspective here:

The way I see it is Leno is as much to blame as the NBC execs. 5 years ago Conan wanted to leave NBC, but NBC did not want him to leave, and offered to turn the Tonight Show over to Conan in 5 years. Leno agreed to that, and even openly spoke on the Tonight show that he wanted a smooth transition and that he did not a fiasco to happen like the last time, and that he would retire. I believed Jay then, but I don’t believe him now. I can’t find the video where he said that, I wish someone would replay his own words.

Jay has his hand in this, and I no longer believe what he is saying, his is ruthless, and a cutthroat. I think that if he does end up with the Tonight Show it will never be the same and the ratings will drop. He has tarnished his reputation, and the viewers will stay with Letterman, and hopefully Conan will get a show on FOX within a month, and that will also hurt Jay’s ratings.

The Leno Show website DID shorten the clip… The whole 10@10 isn’t shown.. you have to watch the full episode to see anything but the chin remarks on the first question.

I didn’t look at other 10@10 clips to see whether they are shortened or complete.

How is this POSSIBLY Leno’s fault? NBC edged him out of a time and program at which he excelled, substituting him with a guy who didn’t do nearly as well. And now that the network wants to move him back, what’s he supposed to do – say “no” to a job he loved, and let a guy, with abyssmal ratings, continue on in that position?

And what about the viewers? If we like Jay in the Tonight Show at 11:30, shouldn’t majority rule here – shouldn’t we get the guy we want?

Again, how is this POSSIBLY Leno’s fault?

Missy, Jay agreed to this 5 years ago, and said that he was going to retire, and that he wanted a smooth transition and not some fiasco like the last time (i.e. Letterman), but now he has screwed Conan worst than he did Letterman. I don’t think this is all Jay’s fault but he has to own up to what he agreed to. Jay’s ratings weren’t that great the first two years either.

I don’t believe Jay anymore, I posted that a few minutes before yours.

I don’t think most people here are arguing that it is his fault, but rather than being the stand up guy he presents himself as (and bowing out gracefully as he agreed to 5 years ago), he’s straddling a line between neutrality and victimhood that most people aren’t buying.

So no, it’s not his fault, but he could have made the situation better, and chose not to.

How would Jay Leno have felt if Carson had done the same thing to him?
What if Carson never bowed out gracefully and then took the job back 6 months later?
Because it took Jay 2 years to get good ratings.

And Conan is doing the best in the ratings among young people, 20-49, which is what the advertisers covet the most.
So basically elderly people don’t like Conan.

Jay should do the classy thing and not take the show away from Conan. This will forever tarnish his reputation, and he’s foolish to not realize this.

Leno is the master of getting what he wants through passive aggressive methods. I’m sure he saw this as win/win originally. He got a prime time show and if it worked, he helped get NBC back on track. If either it failed or Conan failed, and NBC put him back at The Tonight Show or in it’s time slot, then it was NBC’s fault for jacking with a successful formula and poor old Jay was just trying to the right thing for the company, but now he’s back to save the day.

He managed to shift the blame onto his old manager for the first Tonight Show debacle but he’s going to end up carrying the weight for this one. If he really was the stand-up guy he pretends to be. He’d step down and ask that Conan be given the same chance he was.

That’s how I see it. To me that’s the problem with Jay. I can’t see how he thinks people will see him the same way if he ends up back at the Tonight Show. I use to watch him when he had it and I didn’t think he was that funny.

I was really happy to have Conan take over, I think the guy is too funny.

Watchng this play our from across the Atlantic, what strikes me is the way expert opinion has shifted over the last few months. When Leno’s prime time show was announced, the consensus seemed to be that he would either swim there or sink forever. If he sank, his public failure would poison him as far as other networks were concerned.

At what point, I wonder, did NBC and others decide that he, Leno, was the more valuable property after all?

Artie Lange was unavailable

James – I have been surprised to see no comments regarding how the folks at Comcast must be feeling about this. Brian Roberts just paid a lot of money to buy this network and every night he can watch the host on “The Tonight Show”, one of NBC’s jewels spend most of the show talking about what complete idiots all the NBC execs are. As a result of this, the show is more fun to watch and Conan’s ratings have gone way up. So Comcast knows that there are now even more people watching their network get ravaged on one of its own shows. Then add in all the ammo they are giving Letterman so that he goes on every night about the “nitwits and knuckle draggers at NBC.” If I was Jeff Zucker I would be seriously worried about how long Brian Roberts wants me around after I screwed this thing up so badly. Thoughts?

This retirement announcement is a bit ironic to read, including the opinion, “By sewing up the succession issue five years in advance, NBC will avoid a replay of that messy scenario.”

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,702402,00.html

LENO RETIRED!!! NBC IS HORRIBLE BUT LENO IS ALSO TO BLAME!

People keep saying Leno never wanted to leave the Tonight Show. That may be so but he announced his retirement on the show! He even said Conan was the best choice to replace him so all these articles where Leno supposedly says he thinks Conan is shaky or whatever are also wrong.

Here is an excerpt: ”In 2009, I’ll be 59 years-old and will have had this dream job for 17 years,” Leno said in a statement. ”When I signed my new contract, I felt that the timing was right to plan for my successor, and there is no one more qualified than Conan. Plus, I promised [my wife] Mavis I would take her out for dinner before I turned 60.”

Leno then regretted his decision and so NBC gave him The Jay Leno Show to keep him at NBC and this whole thing began..

HERE is a link:
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,702402,00.html

Thank you for this. I was looking for the actual video where he says this but did not find it on youtube, I’m sure it’s there but did not search correctly. That’s what I remember he said, and that’s why I think Jay is not being truthful about this whole thing.

I have to think the video is out there somewhere, but I was happy to just find this much too!

I am really torn on the whole thing, but this does cement a few things in my mind. (And makes me wonder what Jay’s wife thinks!)

Leno was either lying five years ago when he claimed to be eyeing retirement and looking forward to a smooth transition in 2009, or lying now when he claims he was booted from The Tonight Show against his will and now is only being a good soldier, going where his NBC overlords tell him to go. If he had really wanted to retire last year, he would have — or, had NBC’s offer of more money enticed him to stick around for The Jay Leno Show, he could still walk away today now that the experiment has been deemed a failure. Walking back to the 11:35 desk is the smoking gun. And though I agree that this mess is of NBC’s creation, their show pony isn’t exactly helping their case.

As to whether this will hurt him in the long run … I doubt it. All in all, his core fans who are most likely return to his Tonight Show are presumably happy about this turn of events — better that than see Leno go, after all. He’s going to be the butt of pop culture jokes for a while, but it’s not like his “comedy” stylings have kept him free of industry derision up till now, and he’s been laughing all the way to the bank.

Van, that’s what I am afraid of. Jay will be back, and I’ll just watch Letterman I suppose, well until Conan gets a show – I hope. I can always go back to reading a book, or Time magazine before I got to bed ;-)

I don’t know if anyone’s said this before, but doesn’t this kind of seem like one big ratings ploy? I haven’t watched jay’s show or conan’s in a while, but since this fiasco started, I’ve definitely tuned in to see what they’re going to say in their monolgues. I’m pretty sure alot more people have also

Leno was pressured out five years ago, when NBC began to panic that they might lose O’Brien. He then began to have second thoughts when The Tonight Show was a continued success in the ratings and showed no signs of slowing down. Honestly, I can’t really fault him for wanting to stay- or for changing his mind as the end drew near. It was a scenario nearly every baby boomer could identify with: The loyal employee who still delivers, being forced out to make way for someone younger.

However, Leno should’ve never agreed to the primetime deal. He was a proven commodity in late night and realized a primetime talk show was risky. So risky, in fact, that he had NBC agree to keep him on for two years, no matter what. But really, why accept a challenge if the bar is going to be set so ridiculously low? Why not play to your strengths and move somewhere you can remain competitive?

For their part, NBC should’ve resolved this situation back in 2007 or 2008. Their late night schedule was one of the few things that actually worked fine and needed no adjustment. They should’ve re-negotiated with both Leno and O’Brien, convincing them to delay the switch for a few more years. I’m sure O’Brien may have been a little upset, but it would’ve been nothing compared to the debacle we are currently witnessing.

Ultimately, I don’t blame Leno for any of this mess. Yes, he has gone along with it, but it is still a screwup orchestrated entirely by NBC. They made a bad decision five years ago, solely because they didn’t want to lose a talented host. Amazingly, they made the same bad decision- for the exact same reason- at the end of 2008.

Even so, the easiest way to resolve this would be for Leno to step aside. He should admit to taking a gamble that didn’t pay off, reach a settlement with NBC, then move to another network. (ABC reportedly still wants him, but not O’Brien.) Leno gets to save face and return to late night, O’Brien gets to keep The Tonight Show, and NBC ends up taking all the blame.

Of course, the problem at this point is that NBC wants Leno a lot more than O’Brien. They blame O’Brien for the poor ratings and face a smaller penalty ($40-60 million) for breaking his contract, as opposed to breaking Leno’s ($80 million).

[...] Can Jay Leno's image recover? He's trying to paint himself as the underdog, and he just might succeed if everybody gets their digs in at him. [...]

The most telling sign of damage to Jay is his failure to get a ratings bump out of this fiasco.

Seriously, when it comes to talk show controversy = ratings.

Conan seeing an enormous bump, but Leno got a series low (for Thursday nights) last night.

Jay could help his image by doing The Tonight Show/Jay Leno Show/Whatever Show for $1 for the first year, at least. Or donating his $$$alary to charity.

Jay could better help his image by bowing out, and being true to his word of 5 years ago that he didn’t want a mess surrounding the hosting duties on ‘The Tonight Show’. However, Leno’s priorities clearly include neither his reputation nor others’ misfortunes.

Alright, Now having seen the Jimmy Kimmel 10 @ 10…I really think this was a plan went awry. I really don’t think NBC would have allowed Kimmel on the show without some protection against him honestly saying whatever the heck he wanted. It’s possible they thought that if Jay was seen laughing along at the digs made at his expense, he would seem like not such a d-b. We have to remember- this is NBC and they have so much money riding on this. The difference between this stuff and Conan’s stuff- Conan is off the reservation but with a contract right now. NBC really can’t touch him. Kimmel is a complete nube and I think NBC paid him to say exactly what he did. It was supposed to make Jay look a little better…It didn’t work, obviously. But I don’t think this 10@10 was unknown to NBC. It’s been a long day and an even longer jaypocolypse week and I don’t know if any of that made sense. But I tried :-p

Jay clearly didn’t want to leave the show – he was forced to agree. So you could say Conan stole the show from Jay.
What goes around comes around.

@Robert Jimenez

“Jay agreed to this 5 years ago”

Just like Conan has agreed to take 30 million and leave.

I don’t care how much NBC had to twist Leno’s arm to get him to commit to a 2009 retirement date. If the guy knew five years ago that he had no intention of retiring, he should have had the balls to say so openly, rather than promising a smooth handoff and letting people make long term plans based around a lie. And if he /didn’t/ know then, he should accept some of the responsibility for having created the situation by changing his plans so capriciously. Not to say the guy should quit performing if he doesn’t want to, but let’s face it — Leno hasn’t given even one inch in this situation, even though it never would have happened if he’d stuck to his word. Instead, he’s blaming NBC for “firing” him from the 11:30 gig he gave up, just because they refused to break the contract they had with Conan. That’s completely ridiculous.

“Treating it like business, a competitive business, where you take advantages where you can get them” only goes as far as it goes. There’s still a such thing as business ethics. If my boss behaves unethically, that doesn’t clear me of wrongdoing if I decide to try to save myself by passing the fallout along to my coworker.

I Was pulling for a duel hosting duty like the CBS Evening News did

In the same vein as “never eat in an ethnic restaurant if none of the customers are of that ethnicity,” I have to go with whomever the other late night personalities and comedians in general are going with — which seems to be Conan, right? I’ve never been a fan of Leno, and I think Conan is the bee’s knees, but I’m willing to admit my personal comedic preference doesn’t determine who’s “right” here. But if the other performers in the industry are taking Conan’s side, that, to me, speaks volumes.

Leno has been piling on the lies and hypocrisy!

Too many are buying into NBC’s PR machine which has every intention
of rewriting history!

Don’t be swayed, check out the following link to read of Leno’s
deceit:

http://www.therestrainingorder.com/?p=2250