Tuned In

Lostwatch: Stop! Or My Mom Will Shoot

ABC
ABC

 

SPOILER ALERT: Before you read this post, make sure you’ve bought a card and made dinner reservations for Mother’s Day. Then watch last night’s Lost.

“The Variable” came with the burden of expectations. The was the fact that it was going to center on Daniel Faraday and his knowledge of The Island. There was the advance buzz encouraged by the producers, who called it one of their favorite Lost episodes ever. And there was the title itself, which alluded to “The Constant,” one of the best if not the best Lost episodes of all time. 

I don’t think “The Variable” (until its last moments) rose close to that level as an hour of television; it advanced slowly on the Island—though there was a neat callback to the first scene of the season and a heartbreaking encounter between Daniel and child Charlotte—while the backstory we got of Daniel and Eloise was the sort of troubled parental relationship we’ve seen a lot on Lost.

But as two hours of television, it becomes more interesting. If you go back and look at the flashbacks in the episode after that holy-crap last minute, and realize that everything Eloise is saying, she is saying from the standpoint of a woman who knows that she is going to fatally shoot her own son,* then it becomes fascinating. And sad. And kind of twisted. 

[* If she fatally shot her own son. From this point forth, my review is predicated on the premise that Daniel Faraday is dead. Which—on the not-until-they-cut-off-and-burn-the-head theory of Lost, he may not be. In which case the implications of his death—both emotional and narrative—are shot to hell. Which is exactly why I hate the use of fake-deaths on shows like Lost; because they poison every actual death on the show afterward by making you question its veracity.]

Of course, you have to go back and re-watch, or at least re-think about it, for those scenes to have new meaning. Which is why I could see this episode being a favorite of the producers, who presumably saw it repeatedly in editing bays. I’ll be curious to see how it struck those of you who watched it once.

[Update: This, by the way, is one of the rewarding aspects of Lost as it gets well into its fifth season—so many of its most affecting moments are scenes we've already watched several episodes or even years ago, now given new meaning because of what we now know, or reprised with slight, but essential, differences in perspective. Lost's history both repeats itself and rhymes.]

If Daniel is in fact dead, it was a fine sendoff for Jeremy Davies, who elevated the show every minute he was on. His final end was emotionally brutal—realizing his mother was far worse even than the scientific stage mom he thought her to be, and, worse, realizing that, after finally convincing himself that he could in fact change the events of the past (and thus spare Charlotte in the future), he had failed in the end, through betrayal by his own mother. It was not just bloody and sad but existentially crushing to see the light go out in his eyes.

But back to Eloise: there is something very important in what she says to Penny in their last moments together, and I’m not sure what or why it is. ”For the first time in a long time, I don’t know what is going to happen next.” Why? What has suddenly changed? It seems as if her certainty has been shaken by something equivalent to Ben’s seeing Alex die (“He changed the rules”);  something has changed and made the future uncertain. It can’t be her having killed Daniel, since she’s lived with that knowledge the past three decades. Perhaps it’s connected with Desmond’s return—his coming, at the behest of her son, is literally Daniel’s last communication with her from beyond the grave. Or maybe she knows that Daniel—or his companions—have managed to change something that we do not yet know about. But really, I don’t know how to interpret that line, except that I’m sure it’s important. 

When one door closes, I suppose, another opens, and with the passing of Daniel Eloise suddenly becomes much more interesting. In particular: why was it so important for her that he go into science and return to the Island? Why, more important, is it so important that—even knowing she will murder her own son—she does not try to turn him from that path but actively encourages it? Is it possible that she thinks, hopes, prays, that by going to the Island with the freighter, he will manage to change time and keep her from killing him? (Though if that’s the case, it seems to undermine everything she’s been saying about destiny and the immutability of the past since we’ve met her.) 

I’m hoping that there is a reason beyond her believing that, because Daniel’s death happened, it therefore must happen—there’s something unsatisfying about the circular time-travel logic by which characters are motivated simply to make sure that events we know to have happened, happen. 

Does that make any sense? Am I getting a nosebleed again? And why am I getting the unfortunate feeling that Eloise’s actions would become much clearer if I went back to see what she said to Desmond in “The Constant”? Suddenly, it feels like this hour of television is turning into three hours of television. 

With that, the hail of bullets: 

* As long as I’m asking questions here, here’s a big one: just what is the objective of the Oceanic survivors on the Island now? What is their purpose? Jack’s intent in going back was to save the rest he left behind, right? But now he finds that Sawyer and Juliet would rather stay, Hurley seems to be doing fine and—well, where the hell exactly is Rose and everyone else anyway? Before the Oceanic Six escape, his endgame was getting everyone off the Island. What’s his endgame now? 

* “I’m not allowed to have chocolate before dinner.” Of all the callbacks in this episode, that was the most gut-wrenching. 

* “He’s my son too.” I couldn’t let that pass, although I’d seen the Widmore-is-Daniel’s dad theory enough not to be floored. I’m more interested, though, to know what that slap was all about. Good, at least, to know that he’s a consistently lousy father (and father-in-law). 

* There were, however, at least a few light moments in the episode: ”You guys were in 1954? Like, Fonzie times?”

* So are we to assume that Jack and company, having seen Daniel fail at his mission, are going to try somehow to finish it? Didn’t Chekhov say something about your having to detonate a hydrogen bomb if you put one on stage in the first act?

Related Topics: lost, Uncategorized
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  • jimmycrack

    Kudos on the post title, James! Very funny. One of the more mind-mangling episodes of Lost. I’ve given up trying to speculate what’s to come, but this was thrilling, and it answered some important questions. Two disappointments: The ‘Desmond Hume is my Constant’ note seems superfluous now; and I guess the ‘comic-con’ video is not canon (i.e., I guess Farraday didn’t film Chang imploring the DI to start up in the future).

  • natego

    Nice to see a few answers..
    - Widmore DEFINITIVELY planted the plane.
    - Widmore/Eloise relationship.
    - Who Theresa was.
    - What the Incident was and why the Swan’s purpose changed.
    etc.
    .
    Other than that.. I’m pretty confused by all this crap.. haha Lost is getting exhausting!!
    .
    On a final note.. INCREDIBLY upset to see (seemingly) Jeremy Davies go. He was excellent in this show and wish we could continue seeing this character in action.. oh well..

  • natego

    Also loved seeing the scene played out after Daniel sees the crashed plan on TV. (I wonder if they shot that a second time, or shot this scene when they did the original footage of Daniel crying.)

  • renewkir

    first off, your flash forward answer sheet:

    1) a funeral
    2) a wedding
    3) a surfer
    4) a sonogram
    5) school’s out!!!

  • Matt

    What jumped out at me was that Daniel and Theresa reacted differently to the experimentation. James, I’ll see your Chekhovian hydrogen bomb and raise you a Chekhovian comatose ex-girlfriend. There’s something more to her, but I haven’t had enough time to speculate yet.
    .
    Perhaps I missed this, but did Daniel’s realization about the variable just come out of nowhere? I’d expect there to be something that triggered it…
    .
    Also, James, that you seized on the fact that Eloise no longer knows what’s to come, but what struck me was that she apparently knew, definitively, beforehand. How? (It seems that) Daniel dies before giving any real details – her reading the journal is the only thing that makes sense.
    .
    At a more human level, I think Daniel’s death (again, I hate that my first inclination is not to assume he’s dead) is the most effective from an emotional standpoint since Charlie’s.
    .
    And thinking about it more, it’s now so clear (to me, probably others here said it before but I forgot) why Abbadon tells Naomi that it has to be “these four” – it’s just another time loop!

  • renewkir

    my initial thoughts: I didnt see eloise’s agenda as sinister or twisted. it seemed to me she had a very hard time doing what she felt like she had to do, and watching the second piano scene a second time, i really got a lot of emotion out of her that i missed the first time. that was the most sympathetic i’ve ever been for eloise, and maybe for all of the mother/father figures in the series. She was torn to tell daniel to go back to the island, but she knew she had to — because, i think, essentially, she’s a fatalist.

    and i’m starting to think maybe that’s what the big war is — determinism vs. indeterminism. or maybe that’s an overcomplication… i don’t really know anything about philosophy. but maybe the battle is between those who believe in the constant and those who believe in the variable. it would be appropriate, since this is the episode in which daniel switched camps.

    i found one line particularly ironic. when jack, kate and daniel are looking for the others, and jack asks daniel why he needs a gun to see his mother: “You don’t know my mother.” indeed

  • Tom Shaw

    Only have time for one note/disagreement, but it is a big one:
    -
    There is nothing special about Hawking’s comment to Penny.
    -
    Hawking has known, since the 70s, that she will have to close two loops:
    Getting Daniel on the freighter.
    Getting one (or more) of the Losties on Ajira 316. (Probably Sayid to shoot Ben, but she could interact with other Losties as well. Actually, given that the only 815er that agreed to go in the church scene and ended up in the 70s was Jack, it seems almost a given that she will interact with him – how else will she find out Daniel took the boat route, after all.)
    -
    Now that both these goals have been accomplished, and the loops closed, Hawking (clearly a proponent of WHH) now has no idea what the future holds.

  • chelsea15jk

    First off, CALLED IT! Totally knew that Charles was Dan’s dad. Not like you couldn’t see it from a mile off, but just let me bask in the fact that I was right for once.

    Secondly, please don’t let Daniel be dead! Charlotte and him need to get together.

    And that’s about all I have to say, I think. :)

  • antilles13

    @Tom- what do you make of Eloise’s comment to Desmond in 316, “the Island isn’t done with you yet”? Seems at that point she still “knew” what was happening next, and she’d already taken every action she would in getting the O6 onto that flight. Would her ability to know what would happen next have ended as soon as 316 crashed? (And if that’s the case – did anyone else get the sense that something was “different” with Desmond tonight? He seemed… I don’t know… content, in a way he wasn’t the day before.)

  • http://www.simonvinkenoog.nl/beeld/Yogi%20-%20Annelies%20Rigter.jpg yogi

    hmm, still contemplating this episode, need to re-watch it indeed. Nice to finally get the answer to who (Widmore) planted the plane though.

  • http://www.simonvinkenoog.nl/beeld/Yogi%20-%20Annelies%20Rigter.jpg yogi

    Oh, I also did get a kick out of the Wired mag shout out (http://getlostpodcast.iimmgg.com/image/089c0e261b91f5d10f609cc4f1ca954d) in Faraday’s house given that JJ Abrams guest edited this month’s edition.

  • dwhitcomb

    My theory:
    I’m guessing Jack and company do finish the mission and blow the bomb and this becomes known as The Incident.
    -
    Remember, Desmond was supposed to wear a radiation suit every time he left the hatch. He got that idea from Kelvin who got his orders from Radinsky. Radinsky knew about the entire island and wrote the map so that others, when the radiation cleared, would be able to find the rest of the stations and the Dharma Initiative could continue.
    -
    This explains why Dharma still drops food but sends no one else to the island. They’re worried about the radiation and waiting for word from Radinsky that the coast is clear. However, Radinsky couldn’t take the waiting and blew his brains out.
    -
    My guess is that The Incident doesn’t do what Daniel thought it would. 815 will still have crashed but the remaining 815ers will be transported back to 2007 and reunited with Locke, Ben, Sun, and Frank to live out their true destiny and help in the battle vs. the “do you know what lies in the shadow of the statue” crew.
    -
    I’m trying to remember if Jack ever met Richard. I assume he’ll be meeting him in the next episode so I’m wondering if those two interacted before now. Does anyone remember? My guess is that whatever he finds out about Jack and co will influence who gets put on the lists that the Others make and who gets to go straight to the temple (like Cindy the flight attendant).

  • rhys1882

    Jack is going to try to finish Daniel’s mission. He will believe it is the reason he is there.

    The number one thing to remember with Daniel is his journal. His written down all of his theories and all of the events of his life up until that point. Eloise will now find the journal and she will know what will happen in the future because of it, up until the events in the journal catch up with Daniel’s death. Her comment to Penny is because she no longer knows what is going to happen based on what was written in the journal.

    Furthermore, the journal will likely allow someone, probably Jack, to do something that absolutely has to be done, most likely to save the lives of everyone on the island. My guess, is whatever they do to try to stop the “incident” will end up saving everyone on the Island’s lives, but not stop the events of the future. It will be what is supposed to happen, what already happened. And the only way it can be accomplished is with Daniel’s notes which he has to bring to the Island and then bring back in time.

  • Dave

    Re: Daniel being alive or dead – I had a totally opposite reaction, James. Daniel looked as dead as Ben Linus did after Sayid shot him, so I just assumed when the episode ended that Daniel is also alive. It’s a good thing there’s a surgeon right there :) (I think one of the producers referred to the CC video as semi-canon, and he said that people think it’s Daniel’s voice)
    `
    I’m relieved to see Daniel be wrong about something (WHH and variables), and it’s interesting to see how differently people react to the knowledge of time travel, and yet WHH still persists. Eloise pushed Daniel into science to get him to where she knew he would be at a certain point. Daniel avoided Charlotte as a child until he thought he could change things, when in fact, all he was doing was playing out the script that he always played. Yes, he’s making the free will choice that he’s making, but the end result was always predestined, whether he thinks that’s true or not.
    `
    The “great purpose” of the Oceanic survivors in 1977 is that they will cause the Incident and get thrown back to 2008. If they have destiny beyond that, it’s to combat the Shadow of the Statue folks. They have to get to the present and set things right there too.
    `
    The DI couldn’t have abandoned the Island after the Incident, because they were still around for the Purge. Perhaps the off-Island DI thought that the Purge was actually a permanent disease, not just Tempest Juice.

  • madmatt86

    The diary was a really good hint, thanks for pointing that out. It’s already been said that with Daniel’s death he doesn’t have any need for Desmond as his constant anymore. But giving him such an important mentioning in the diary will inevitable lead to Eloise sending Desmond on his first trip to the island and so on. Another chain of events.
    .
    It’s sad to see Daniel die. This time I’m quite certain he’s gone for good, it serves the story and I’m not sure what his further use would have been. Not like other “deaths” by people who obviously still have reached their “destiny”.

  • Dave

    Hawking knowing about Desmond helps explain Brother Campbell being in cahoots with Hawking and Widmore to get him together with Penny.
    `
    It’s kind of funny to look at Desmond and Penny, one of the best, most true romances on the show (outside of Rose and Bernard, is there a pair we love to see together more than Des and Pen?) seems to be set up entirely by outsiders with the intention of getting Desmond to the Island. Maybe “depressing” is a better word than “funny.”
    `
    I’m assuming we’ll see it in the next couple episodes, but I’m really looking forward to finding out just what drives Hawking and Widmore apart so fiercely. Is it just that Hawking shoots their child? (Side note: on a scale of 1 to 10, how possible is it that Widmore only thinks he’s Daniel’s father, but really isn’t? And yes, I do still like the idea of Radzinsky being Daniel’s father, though I accept that it’s most likely not true.)

  • Kemper

    Not as good as The Constant, but Daniel’s death and the scenes with Charlotte came close. Random thoughts:
    .
    - To me, the most heartbreaking part was the fact that the guy who was Mr. Whatever Happened, Happened, swung around to believe that he could become a variable and change events. But as he is dying, not only does he realize that his own mother killed him and knew she was going to kill him the whole time she was grooming him to go to the island, it was that he realized that this meant that his variable theory was wrong and that he hadn’t changed anything. Charlotte still dies and The Incident still occurs. His dying thought had to be that not only had he been betrayed and killed by his mother, but that he was wrong and had utterly failed. The cherry on top of this depression sundae is that we know, thanks to Eloise’s comments in 2009 about not knowing what was going to happen next for the first time, that change still MAY be possible if Jack follows through with Dan’s plan.
    .
    Why did Dan feel the need to run into the Others camp waving a gun around in the first place? I know he was getting desperate, but you’d think he would have known that going down there with his hands up and asking to speak to Eloise, who would have remembered him form their 1954 encounter, would have worked much better than threatening a large group of armed people. That was one note that rang really false to me.
    .
    I hate to nitpick a great episode but did anyone else think that a lot of the guns used in the shootout between Kate, Jack and Daniel against the DI guys look very modern? Dan had what looked like an older gun and the rifles looked older, but the other pistols used looked much more modern than 1977 to me.
    .
    Re: The Flash Forward commercials. Anyone who has read the book by Robert Sawyer has got to realize what a great companion piece that this could be for Lost. Fingers crossed that it lives up to the potential.

  • rosseau

    Okay, my fantastic, crazy theory full of holes and probably discredited (if even considered): Eloise and Widmore, much like the crew of the Enterprise in Lev Grossman’s favorite TNG episode, are in a time loop, repeating really their lives over and over again (lifetime instead of a day like Bill Murray in Groundhog Day). But instead of the Enterprise blowing up at the end of each iteration, in Lost the whole world blows up because of the energy they found on the island. Widmore and Hawking might either have full memories of each time or they may have trace memories like Picard and Co. did and would have to piece it together.

    So they go on the expedition as young people to get close to the destructive event, realize they can’t stop it because they aren’t physicists and therefore don’t understand the energy and its changing time qualities. So in later iterations of the loop, they have a son. Maybe they have a son anyway, but Eloise is a good mother and lets him become a pianist. World still ends. So she pushes him to physics, his father helps him along, all in the hopes that he can go back in time and tell the Losties that they have to prevent the release of the energy that will doom the world. Eloise knows she will shoot her own son, but that is the price of saving the world. She, like Dan, is hoping that history can be changed and this iteration of events will be the last. Widmore, on his end, knows Locke is critical in some way to this so he has to persuade him. Oh and Widmore and Eloise somehow are the Adam and Eve skeletons. Feel free to disparage me, the newbie here; I am lost as well.
    James, no one under 25 will get that title. If they don’t, do you really want to be the one introducing that movie to their consciousness?

  • shara says

    Wow! I was so shocked when Ellie killed Daniel, what a horrifying, depressing time loop for both of them to have to live through. I also got the vibe that it was really hard for her to do all the things she thought she had to do – push Daniel towards physics/math, cut off all his “distractions”, continue pushing him throughout his life, and sending him back to the island. I also got the feeling that she was purposefully keeping him at arms-length, emotionally, because it was too awful for her to contemplate the tragedy in his future/her past, and she knew she was going to have to send him to his death (basically killing him twice, kinda, once without knowing and once intentionally with full knowledge of the consequences). So while she loved him, she never got too close – that was my take on the matter, anyway.
    .
    I’m definitely in the camp that thinks that Jack & company are going to do everything in their power to stop The Incident, and that everything they do is only gonna be another brick in the wall of whatever already happened.
    .
    God I hate Radzinsky. Just sayin’. If I had been stuck in the hatch with him, I’d have shot him within a few weeks – not wait around for him to off himself. Poor Kelvin.
    .
    Praise Be, Desmond is OK. Was I the only one totally freaking out when the nurse was all “leave your son here and go see your husband” – I was pretty sure that whole thing was going to end with little Charlie disappearing, and that was what was gonna get Desmond back in the game, having to find his kidnapped kid. But no, nothing seemed to come of that (yet anyway). But we never did see the whole family together, might there be some episode in the future that picks up where that left off?

  • Matt

    @rosseau – a) i think that’s an interesting idea, if not at at probably and b) i’m under 25 and i get it, thank you very much…
    .
    In mentally rewatching late season 4 and this season, I realized that Eloise was indeed telling the truth that the Island would heal Daniel – his memory issues did indeed fade away. Of course, that only adds to the gut wrenchiness.

  • briebry

    Hello there. I’ve long been a reader of the Lostwatch message board, but this is my first time jumping into the fray. I JUST signed up for a WordPress account specifically so I could respond to a couple of today’s comments, so I hope I make sense!

    @Matt & madmatt86: I don’t think there’s necessarily anything more to Theresa (and why she reacted differently to the experiment than Daniel). I think the difference is that Daniel had Desmond as his constant. When Desmond went to visit Daniel at Oxford (while he was time jumping on the freighter/in boot camp), Daniel was still experimenting with Eloise the rat. So by the time tried out his experiment on himself, he already had a contstant (and was largely okay, despite the memory loss issue which I’m not sure I totally understand) but Theresa did not. Which means that the played-up mention of Desmond as Daniel’s constant in his journal was not (necessarily) important because it let Eloise know she needed to get Desmond to the Island, but because it prevented Daniel from making himself permanently comatose with his experiment.

    Unfortunately, I can’t recall whether Daniel wrote down “Desmond Hume is my constant” when on the Island or when he met him back at Oxford (I think it was actually on the Island)…so I’m not quite sure how that plays in. But that’s my thinking on the issue, at least. I’m eager to see what everyone else thinks.

  • Dave

    @Kemper – I’m with Tom Shaw on Hawking’s comment to Penny. She doesn’t know what’s going to happen because she’s closed her respective time loops.
    `
    As for the guns, I’m hardly an expert on guns, but the pistols seemed pretty generic to me, like they could have been made any time since WWII.

  • antilles13

    This season is, for the most part, bumming me out. I miss having my mind frakked with every week. They aren’t really raising any new mysteries, just inconsistencies. I really hope they’re done with the time travel before S6 begins.
    -
    A simple question really: where is Daniel getting all his information from? How does he know about the Incident, right down to the precise moment it’s going to occur?? Obviously, no one in 1977 knew that, so he must have gotten it from his journal. But how is it in his journal – i.e., who put it there?? Maybe he got it from Widmore or his mother – but then why is he just NOW coming to the conclusion that he change the future? Wouldn’t that have been his purpose all along if he knew about the incident from the beginning?
    -
    “I’ve been focusing so much on the constants I forgot about the variables!” That might the lamest non-answer they’ve ever given.
    -
    I really wasn’t bothered by the Star Trek promo – I’m usually fastforwarding once the Lost logo starts anyway – but was that not the worst possible scene they could have chosen to promote the movie? It actually made me NOT want to see the movie. I mean, if I wanted to watch The Phantom Menance again, I would just … well, I would probably shoot myself.

  • shara says

    2 questions:
    .
    1) What is the title in reference to? It sounded vaguely familiar.
    .
    2) WTF was up with the commercials that flashed an image and said “what did you see”?

  • shara says

    The title of the blog, that is – sorry…

  • Dave

    @briebry – Welcome! It’s always good to see new folks jump into the fray. There’s so much detail to Lost that you can never have enough minds critically analyzing everyone’s theories :)
    `
    Desmond had written “If anything goes wrong, Desmond Hume will be my constant” in his diary, presumably in 1996, but on the Island in 2004, he went back in his diary and saw his note, which he had presumably forgotten about after zapping himself.
    `
    @shara – “Stop! Or My Mom Will Shoot” is a movie. It was made… uh… a while ago, I guess. I’ve never seen it, but the title fits this episode well enough :)
    `
    I didn’t see any commercials (watched it online this morning), but I heard they were promos for a new show.

  • natego

    @ shara.. its a Sylvestor Stallone movie.

  • antilles13

    @brieby – Daniel’s journal said: “If anything goes wrong, Desmond Hume will be my constant.” Which seems to imply that Daniel hadn’t actually become “unstuck” in time himself when he wrote it, but was thinking about the possibility that he might be. But now that you mention it, his experiments on himself probably caused that, and the resulting memory loss (cured by the Island, where he remembers to go back and look in his journal for the note about Desmond being his constant) could explain my question above about where he was getting all his info from. But where would Daniel have been during another point in his life where he would have learned all this (or is that the resulting Comic Con video)?

  • Kemper

    @ antilles13 – I thought that maybe Dan had gotten briefed about the history of the DI and The Incident from Widmore’s knowledge of the island history when they were on the freighter. However, now I’m wondering how he knew so much about Desmond causing 815 to crash by failing to push the button and exactly when he wrote the line about Desmond being his constant in the journal. Is it possible that he came unstuck due to his experiments and wrote a lot of random things in his journal that he only later understood once he got to the island? Not sure. But makes a case that we haven’t seen the last of Farrady until some of that gets resolved.

  • walle1

    I’m starting to feel that lost is at its weakest when it tries to put explain the science behinde the island
    I’m gonna give the writers the benefit of the doubte and assume that when Daniel said he was going to destroy the “energy” he was speaking metaphoricaly. Any scientist of just about any field will tell you that energy cannot be destroyed.
    Also, and I know Daniel didn’t reveal exactly what he was going to do with the bomb but the first thing that comes to mind is to blow it up, if drilling into the pocket of energy had such catastrophic consequences wouldn’t blowing it it up with a hyrogen bomb be worse?

  • briebry

    @antilles13: Unfortunately I’ve got no theories at the moment as to how he figured out exactly when the Incident would occur (and exactly when Chang would be pulling up to the Orchid in a Jeep) – presumably this is what he spent his three years away doing? Somehow?
    .
    But since you mentioned that Daniel remembered to look for the note he’d written in his journal in 1996 re: Desmond while on the Island (shortly after arriving), is it possible the Island didn’t actually heal him as Eloise/Widmore promised? Did he just heal himself (with a helpful reminder from Desmond) by looking at the journal and unsticking himself in time? Although I’m sure the argument could be made that the only reason that happened is because the Island caused Desmond to get unstuck in time, thus necessitating his contact with Faraday, etc., etc….

  • archstanton68

    here’s a time loop for you all to ponder:
    .
    in 1992, one of Hollywood’s biggest action stars somehow decided to make a comedy based on a premise that anyone with a functioning brain would find completely unwatchable. 17 years later, that ill-fated movie and the actor’s resulting career result in me reading the title of this blog and nearly blow coffee out my nose. what dark forces are behind this blog?

  • Tom Shaw

    Recall the freighter captain’s documents (with Dharma logos) – Widmore and his critical employees on the freighter had access to significant Dharma intel (including, apparently, psych profiles on Ben and models on how he would react in an invasion). That it is Ben-specific info means it has to be post-Purge (and thus Widmore could not merely collect it after they took over the Island), which raises the question of how Widmore got it – through espionage, or partnership?

  • natego

    @walle.. I think Daniel wanted to destroy the *source* of the energy. not the energy itself.

  • southernbell49

    I would be devastated if Daniel was dead. He’s one of the best characters on the show. I’ve really missed his being awol for so long.

    Why don’t they kill off Jack, who, imhom, is the only annoying character on the show.

  • natego

    @southernbell.. because Matthew Fox is a stud. Jack is goin nowhere..

  • Tom Shaw

    Fleeting expletive hit the moderation switch. Reposting:
    Again, to reiterate, we still have no evidence that WHH is not the rule. Hawking says she doesn’t know what will happen next simply because she has closed her loops (getting Daniel on the freighter & the 815ers on Ajira). If anything, I suspect that the Losties will still cause “The Incident”, not disrupt it, and return to an unchanged present.
    -
    Err, no one thinks Hawking is estranged from Widmore because he had a kid with some non-believer that wasn’t her? That seems like valid grounds for anger to me.
    -
    Are we to take it that Daniel didn’t pick up an English accent, because Hawking spent that little time with him growing up, for fear that she would abandon what had to be done? That may be more depressing than anything else in the episode. Although it does make me wonder just what she’s been doing in the US for that length of time – was it just to get/keep the Lamppost running?
    -
    Where better for physicists to discuss the Casimir effect than the Cashmir restaurant? Appreciate those rare physics/restaurant puns when you can get them, people.
    -
    Hurley is still lugging that guitar case around. Just what did what/whomever tell him to get him on Ajira, and what did they make him bring along in that case? Again, Miles’ experience makes it clear that Hurley hasn’t been speaking with actual ghosts, so that leaves, what? The Whisperers? Jacob? I’m guessing this is one of the big twists in the season finale.
    -
    So it was Miles’ voice then in the Comic-Con video? Yet another loop closed (Miles caused the rift between Candle & his family that Miles was trying to solve).
    -
    As far as their purpose on The Island:
    That’s been the whole point of this season. There simply doesn’t appear to be one. The only reason any of them are back is solely to close the time travel loops – Richard getting the skinny (again, probably from Jack, if Hawking was satisfied that he alone out of the 70s batch agreed to go in the church scene) is what prompts his “They have to come back” directive to Locke. Locke telling Richard that he is special is what prompts Richard to tell Locke he is special.
    (That Locke 2.0 gets special treatment does not necessarily say anything about Locke 1.0 (or, given the number of changes in his life, Locke 1.5 or so).)

  • Dave

    @Tom – I thought about Widmore’s affair causing the estrangement. Call me desensitized, but it seems like the rift between the two of them is deeper than that. Also, considering how much the two of them really care about relationships, you’d think an affair wouldn’t bother them all that much (unless it was their failed relationship that caused them not to care about relationships in the present).
    `
    After listening to the “This is useless… how do I turn this off?” line of the CC video a dozen times just now, I’m wondering if the voice is Phil. There are points where it sounds like Miles, Daniel, and Phil, and Phil makes the most sense if Daniel is dead.
    `
    The question of purpose is a Science vs. Faith question. Everything seems to be having legit scientific explanations, so there’s no purpose other than closing time loops. From a Faith perspective, the Island called them all back for a reason, and that’s not just to close time loops. There’s a war coming between SotS folk and Other folk.

  • Chaddogg

    This episode pleased me, puzzled me, and made me ponder a lot about Lost, its history and characters.
    .
    But I think 2 questions/points are most apropos here:
    .
    1) Faith or science? Fate or free will? In one corner, we appear to have Eloise Hawking (who raised her son the way she did PRECISELY so he could go back in time and she could shoot him, not to mention sent Desmond on his journey to the island) because she believes in “what happened, happened.” In the other corner, her son Daniel Faraday, who “spent so much time focused on the constants, that [he] forgot about the variables” — namely the characters on the show who could change the outcome of what happens (in theory).
    .
    If “faith” is deterministic, then “science” (by which man understands the universe around him and can thereby “manipulate” the world and change “destiny” by curing disease, making cars, etc.) is “free will,” the idea that we as people can change things. Faraday is a scientist — he believes in change. His mother just taught him a (fatal?) lesson, though, to the contrary.
    .
    The question this raises, then, is where do the other players fall? We’ve seen Jack play both sides (his fights with John Locke over getting off the island v. his fatalistic/deterministic decision to not save Ben). Locke would seem to be an agent of faith in the island. Ben? Well, here is where I’m starting to be puzzled…he’s interested in science based on bringing Juliet to the island to solve the pregnancy problem….but he’s also an Other and goes to “Temple.” Widmore is even more problematic — is he an agent of faith in the island, or an agent of science seeking to use the island/manipulate it? This brings me to point #2…
    .
    2) Who is the “hero” of Lost? I ponder this because, to me, it makes sense that SOMETHING must have changed. Ben said (when Alex was killed) that “He changed the rules.” We have Hawking saying at the hospital “For the first time, I don’t know what happens next.” The 815ers are somehow back in 1977….SOMETHING or preferably SOMEONE can change things, because they MUST have changed.
    .
    So who? There is, to me, only one answer: Desmond.
    .
    His destiny wasn’t to just save the world by pressing the button….it was to do all that so as to become an “exception” to the time travel paradox rules, capable of changing the past. Desmond HAS to go back to the Island (“the Island is not finished with you” said Hawking), somehow, to “change” things. Some want to stop this “change” from occurring (the statue folks on Island in 2007?), but Desmond has to do something to A) get back to the island, and B) change history/destiny. Faraday DID change history by knocking on the Hatch and telling Desmond to find Hawking. Desmond is the agent of change in this narrative, and (hence) will be the “hero” of the story.
    .
    (I’ll add, this fits nicely with the fact that originally, the show planned to kill Jack in the pilot….Jack’s not the hero, so how cool would it be if a guy we didn’t even SEE until Season 2 WAS the hero?)

  • shara says

    @Chaddog – I like your thinking on this Desmond thing – it makes a lot of sense. Desmond = The Variable?

  • Matt

    @Chad – Though in light of what Hawking said, that she didn’t know what was to happen next (I’m assuming it’s the truth), how does she know that the Island isn’t done with Des? If it’s a gut feeling, all well and good, but she did tell him with her characteristic “I’m the sorta creepy lady who knows the future” voice.

  • natego

    @Chaddog.. the last half of your post regarding Desmond being a hero gave me an odd feeling. Like Des and Pen are the “adam and eve” remains on the island. Not sure why.

  • Dave

    Random question: if Richard Alpert is ageless, where did he get the name Richard Alpert?

  • Dave

    Or is “Richard Alpert” the worst clue ever that he’s really Ra, the sun god.

  • Chaddogg

    Here is a question I have/had: why was Eloise Hawking at the hospital? I mean, how did she know that Desmond had been shot? Did Charles Widmore reach out to her to check on the safety of Desmond/Penny? (I suppose that’s the most plausible idea)
    .
    @Matt — as far as the “Island isn’t done with you” line from Hawking to Desmond, its possible that A) Faraday’s journal mentions something about it that she reads, B) she was just trying to be manipulative, C) her younger self in 1977 saw Desmond return, or D) she just meant it wasn’t done with him in the sense that Widmore was still after him/Ben would try to kill Penny, etc.

  • antilles13

    Anyone have any thoughts as to why neither Richard nor Eloise recognized Daniel in 1977, after having met him previously in 1954? I know its 20+ years, but that had to have been a memorable occasion (especially after Daniel told Ellie he was from the future, and then disappeared into thin air).
    -
    Dan’s reaction on seeing the ageless Richard Alpert was pretty funny though. A guy that never ages. How’s that for a variable?

  • bankerman61

    As a good Calvinist I can easily ascribe to WHH.

    Another sad, touching moment is the crushed look on Juliette’s face after Sawyer tells her they have to leave. Her character has grown on me.

    As to unresolved mother/son conflicts: Eloise the rat was named for Eloise the mom. Maybe Eloise the mom’s disdain of Teresa had to do with that she ended up as part of the failed experiment. Maybe Eloise blames Teresa for Daniel’s memory condition.

    Eloise and Widmor are Brits, but Farraday is an American. And if he’s Widmor’s son where did the name Farraday come from? I think we might see Daniel again in a flashback, now that his mom has gotten so prominent.

    Finally, as to Jack–he has a messiah complex thing going. So unless he’s saving the world he’s blue. Interesting, anyone else think that the flight number for Ajira 316 might correspond to John 3:16?

    Which of course brings us back to Locke & Ben. Locke is the true island messiah–he rose from the dead, much to Ben’s doubting Thomas. So if Locke is Christ is Ben Satan? The two locked in an eternal struggle for the soul(s) of the island?

    Agreed on the Star Trek preview. I was kind of hoping that the Ice Creature would eat Kirk and save me $10 ($20–I’ll have to bring the wife!).

  • antilles13

    You guys bring up great points about Hawking’s statement to Desmond (“Island isn’t done with you yet.”) So, twenty four (or so) hours later she goes to see him at the hospital, and now has no idea what the future holds. (And as an aside, I suppose she could have had some type of flash about Desmond, which was different than her previous flashes, which is why she knew he was at the hospital. I say “different” simply because now she doesn’t know what’s going to happen next.)
    -
    So, I see one of two things: (1) continuity error, and the original line to Desmond is no longer that important, or (2) something happened in between. Has to be (2), right? So what happened? Couldn’t have been 316, since Ben hadn’t even gotten to the airport (and presumably had just gotten out of the water and called Jack, setting in motion six hours of pre-316-take-off time and several more hours of air flight. Was it something that happened at the dock? Was Ben supposed to kill Penny, and Desmond’s (the variable) appearance something that intervened?
    -
    (Of course, we’re not sure about how long Penny was there waiting. It had moved to nighttime, so I suppose it’s possible that 316 did change things. That actually fits better with other comments – Hawking’s “unpredictable results” comments and Daniel’s comment last night about how Hawking was wrong and they weren’t supposed to be there.)

  • Matt

    @antilles – exactly, it’s 20 years. even for something memorable, the faces would inevitably get fuzzy. and as of now we have to presume that richard has had lots and lots of memorable experiences

  • natego

    @Dave.. I suggested the Ra connection a long time ago .. no one seemed to care. That being said, there could still be a connection or maybe just a cheesy joke by the producers. Also, to answer the question, Richard Alpert could have given himself that name. Why does someone else have to have named him?

  • Dave

    @antilles – Also keep in mind that she only saw the back of his head which, as I’ve pointed out in my Radzinsky-is-Daniel’s-father past ramblings, looks remarkably similar to Radzinsky’s, so she probably just thought he was a DI clown going postal on Richard.
    `
    I don’t think there’s any voodoo behind Ms. Hawking telling Desmond the Island isn’t done with him. Like Chaddogg said earlier, it was probably that she read something in his journal, or she knew that once he was tied into the Widmore/Linus/Island game, there’s no easy way out.

  • Dave

    @natego – Yeah, the Ra thing is hardly new, but the thought about his name had struck me.
    `
    It’s just that Richard Alpert seems like a modern, normal name. Did he arbitrarily pick it? It’s hardly a deep, show-altering topic. My curiosity forced me to bring it up :)

  • antilles13

    @Matt & Dave – I can definately give Richard a pass, since he had minimal interaction, but Eloise should have recognized him – but only after she shot him, as you pointed out. The man told him he was from the future, and then disappeared. I would think you wouldn’t forget something like that. But it’s a very minor point, regardless.

  • renewkir

    This thread is dead as dead, but for anyone who might happen back to it, I wanted to point out that this episode really wasn’t all that similar to “The Constant.” Whereas that episode was more about Desmond’s personal journey being unstuck, this was one was about the overall implications of what’s possible with time travel. I think maybe a more appropriate companion episode is “Catch 22″ from season 3. It’s about how Desmond sends Charlie into the jungle, even though he “knows” Charlie will be killed. But he does it because he knows it’s what needs to happen. The difference is that Desmond actually has the power to change things, which lends itself nicely to the theory above that Desmond is the series’ hero.

    Also, Catch 22 shows how far the Widmore conspiracy went, as he sends Penny to the monastery under the guise of buying wine, when in reality she’s there to meet Desmond and fall in love. It also is the episode where we see that enigmatic (and poorly photoshopped) photo of Eloise on Brother Campbell’s desk, which is either a little easter egg to let us know that Campbell was in on the conspiracy or is a connection we’ll revisit later.

    Anyhow, I think Desmond’s jungle journey after “seeing” the future is very similar to what Eloise is going through in “The Variable.” Check it out maybe.

  • http://www.uwire.com UWIRE

    I noticed that when Faraday got off the elevator in the Orchid basement, the man who told him he needed a hard hat is the same actor who played Jason, one of Ben’s 2004-era henchmen in previous seasons.
    .
    http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0337616/
    .
    Hmmm.

  • gnatalby

    Just watched last week’s lost…

    Assuming Eloise got the journal off Daniel’s corpse… how comprehensive was it?

    When she took Desmond on his terrifying tour of stuff he had to do because of fate, she knew some really specific things about like.. people’s shoe color and when they’d fall off ladders. Did she make Daniel write these things in his journal so that she’d be able to make her younger self screw with Desmond?

  • lostepic

    @renewkir: I like your idea of the war being between determinism and indeterminism. but if it is that there has to be more. while the show has done a beautiful job discussing and applying different disciplines of philosophy and worldviews they are the underarching work or structure of the picture. The war has to have something more than the underlining principles. The shows success is having philosophy without the twenty page disertation.

    And real quickly. Daniel can’t be dead. I agree that there was no real indication that he died. the show ended on him realizing what his mother knew and stating he was her son. I find it ridiculous and poor management on the producers if they are going to bring back a character that is loved as Faraday back from whereever he went, we didnt know where he went until this episode, yes many theorized includding myself that he went to Ann Arbor, but why? And to do all that only to kill him?? I dont think so. The freighter crew, Miles, Faraday, Lapedas, Charlotte brought fresh blood and air to the series and introduced new characters to enjoy.

    Eloise is lost because Daniel did change something. Desmond was were he shouldnt. As for “island is not done with you yet” episode Desmond after that episode, saved charlie so he could bring the, al a looking glass, frieghter to the island thus daniel to the island. But the real question is why did Daniel tell desmond to find his mother? Desmond didnt do anything. Yet??

  • gnatalby

    @lostepic: Heh. If only a dissertation only had to be twenty pages…

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