Tuned In

Lostwatch: Adoptive Parents

ABC
ABC

 

 

SPOILER ALERT: Before you read this post, grab yourself a milk—no, make that a juice box—and watch last night’s episode of Lost. 

Everything, they say, comes back into fashion eventually. So though I wouldn’t have believed it had you told me a few weeks ago, Lost has actually begun having interesting flashbacks again. This week, in fact, a flashback that was more compelling than the events on the Island—and a flashback centered on Kate, yet. Will wonders never cease? 

I’ve taken my potshots at Kate Austen over the seasons, but this was probably one of Evangeline Lilly’s best episodes so far. While I was not, am not, and cannot imagine being interested in whether or not Freckles ends up with Sawyer, or Jack, or any man on the Island, Lilly completely sold me on why Kate needed Aaron so badly after escaping the Island, and how badly it hurt her to leave him in order to go back. 

Lilly was so good in that tearful parting motel scene, in fact—you could almost feel her tearing herself away from her baby—that I felt the episode didn’t need the explanation that it devised in order to get her to that place. Her flashback seemed, in part anyway, reverse engineered to answer the questions: why did Kate pretend that Aaron was her baby, and why didn’t she just return him to Claire’s mother?

Saying that she did it for herself—that keeping Aaron was somehow a way of getting over having her heart broken by Sawyer—made dramatic sense, I guess, and it allowed the story to come back around to Cassidy and Clementine. But it would have been simpler, and would have made as much or more human sense, simply to say that she took Aaron because he was her friend’s baby, that she kept him because she trusted only herself to keep him safe (as we all know, Kate isn’t the trusting kind) and that it was wrenching to give him up not because of some three-year-old heartbreak, but because she had raised him as her own baby. 

In the same way, the story on the Island may have been working a little too hard to explain things that didn’t need explaining. The conversation between Hurley and Miles was a pretty blatant let’s-break-down-time-travel-for-the-home-audience scene, but is the concept really that hard to get? Hurley and Miles have traveled back in time, but they haven’t traveled to an earlier point in their lives, so of course they can die. On the other hand, Young Ben is a kid who hasn’t grown into Big Ben yet, so he can’t. And, the end of the episode confirms, he doesn’t. 

That said, the show is getting into hairy enough sci-fi territory that it probably needed someone to say, flat out, “This is not Back to the Future.” (Had no one on Oceanic 815 seen Twelve Monkeys? What was the in-flight movie, anyway?) And it was probably worth it just for the who’s-on-first exchange between Hurley and Miles, concluding with a question we’d been asking here: why, then, didn’t Ben remember having been shot by Sayid when he was captured as an adult? Answer: “Huh.”

Personally, I’d assumed that Ben did remember, and concealed his knowledge because he saw some advantage in it. Because he’s Ben, and that’s what he does. I was wrong, I guess, given Richard’s saying that Ben’s “treatment” in the temple will have the convenient side effect of erasing his memories of the shooting incident. 

So bottom line: much of “Whatever Happened, Happened” served simply to explain that whatever happened did, in fact, as we suspected, happen. Ben lived. He didn’t remember his past with Sayid in the future. And no one faded away, Back to the Future style. 

Beyond that—and the revelation that both Ellie and Widmore are still on the scene with the Others in the 1970s—we’re kind of like Hurley sitting in that living room, biding our time, awaiting instructions, wondering what will be the next development to move the Island story forward, now that it’s not clear whether or why the other survivors need the Oceanic Six. 

Most of the action in this episode was instead on a character level. First, Juliet, Kate and Sawyer came to the decision that whether or not one can change the past, it’s not worth changing your moral character in the attempt. Young Ben is still a child, still an innocent, and it’s still wrong to let him die. 

Unless you’re Jack, of course, whose moral compass is again aligned 180 degrees in the opposite direction. His decision to let Ben die at least stems from some kind of principle: he’s seen what Ben does in the future and, like the doctor he is, wants to catch the disease in its early stages. But he also seems to be acting partly out of pique, telling Kate that he’d already saved Ben once, at her request to save Sawyer, and he regretted it. 

Jack says he’s made this decision because he’s a different person. But has he? Because once again, it seems that it’s all about him. Except this time, that’s true in an even bigger sense: his decision, his willingness to be callous, was probably what ended up making Ben become what he did, as young Linus gets adopted by the Others.

The child is father to the man, and in an episode that was so much about adoptions and their repercussions, Jack has become a kind of father to the man Ben will become. In that sense, it really is all about Jack—much more than he may like to admit.

 Now to the hail of bullets: 

  • OK, I think we all expected Ben would end up alive somehow. And I accept that Lost is a TV show. People will appear to die, and then not die. It has happened before. But: Sayid is a trained killer. You mean to tell me he’s going to screw up the killing of an unarmed 12-year-old? Does no one on this Island know how to shoot for the head? Do we have to get Snoop in here to teach people how to kill a m__________?
  • Lesser quibble: are microbuses really the best vehicle choice for offroad driving? And how do you get one in on a submarine? Break it down into parts? 
  • I was surprised to learn how much blabbing Kate did about the Oceanic Six’s lie. With Cassidy and Claire’s mother both knowing that there are people left alive on the mountain, we’ve got to figure that, at some point, that information gets from them to someone else, right? 
  • It’s good to see Juliet and Kate working so well together on the Island—the cheap and predictable route would be for the triangle/quadrangle issues to arise immediately and for the claws to come out. But so far the only one being a total bitch is Jack. 
  • I’m so happy whenever I see Miles. ”You’re all free to leave whenever you want. But I’ll shoot you in the leg.”
Related Topics: lost, Uncategorized
  • Latest on Entertainment

    HBO

    Girls Watch: A Spartan Existence

    Hannah comes home to East Lansing and visits the netherland between college and full-fledged, independent adulthood, in an outstanding episode co-written by Judd Apatow.

    Adele Crosses Huge MilestoneHuffington Post

    Melinda Sue Gordon / Cogan's Productions

    Killing Them Softly: Brad Pitt's the Hitman, But the Movie's Not a Hit

    He’s a mob enforcer, and a cool dude, in Andrew Dominik’s laggard crime drama

  • Matt

    I’d like there to be something more (because why not?), but if the O5′s purpose for returning to the Island is to create Benjamin Linus as we know and fear him, I will be satisfied:
    Jack – Do nothing
    Kate – Take him to Hostiles
    Sayid – Shoot Him
    .
    OK, so Hurley and Sun are MIA from that equation. But like you mentioned James, Jack DID make Ben, Ben.
    .
    So going into the Temple does indeed “otherize” people. So our hunches about Rousseau’s team are confirmed.
    .
    Small character moments I appreciated:
    -Roger expressing remorse, only to lose Ben spiritually/emotionally.
    -Adult Ben’s eyes at seeing Locke alive.
    -Richard’s remark that he doesn’t follow Ellie & Charles. So it seems he’s always been his own player (he mentions something like this in Season 3 to Locke)

  • meg7

    So many thoughts to share but I wanted to post this first….I really wish I hadn’t seen next week’s promo.
    To anyone who has not seen it yet, good choice.

  • natego

    @ meg – THANKS!!! I am a stickler for staying away from previews/titles until the show. I appreciate the lack of info about what you saw.
    .
    Interesting how the lack of action leads to the results rather than someone taking a specific action…
    .
    Sayid not killing Ben REEEEEAAAALLLLY Bothers me.. there is no way such an important kill would not be accomplished. He shot everyone else more than once and probably in the head, no? Especially the man he thought killed Nadia. I just don’t buy he’d only put one bullet in Ben.
    .
    Loved the specific character moments Matt mentioned with Juliet’s (one of the first times I feel we’ve actually seen her acting chops) anger at Jack and Kate’s motel scene as additions.. .. One thing that I continue to be confused about – Why would Ben insist John’s body be brought back to the island, only to be shocked and scared about him being alive when then get there… It seems he knew John would come back to life, but is still scared and shocked????

  • toba0821

    @Poniewozik
    Were we watching the same episode? Tonight’s show was weak ESPECIALLY because it was so Kate-centric. The maternal connection between Aaron and Kate felt so forced, with the horrible child actor playing no small role in the relationship’s artificiality. I mean seriously, if the casting directors are going to go for the cute factor, can’t they find someone like Jonathan Lipnicki from Jerry Maguire instead that blue-eyed robot? Maybe then, I could feel more sympathy for Kate and her plight.
    Overall, tonight’s show felt contrived, clearly written to tie up some loose ends and with little creativity as a result. The really obvious attempt to explain the sci-fi elements of the show with Hurley and Miles, the ridiculous idea that Kate would take Aaron to get over her “heartbreak,” Richard’s too perfect explanation for Ben’s induction into Other-ness. The return of the Oceanic Six really has screwed things up, especially the show’s writing.

  • meg7

    @natego
    glad my comments helped :)

    I think Sayid was already struggling with killing Ben and killing a helpless kid once in the chest would be enough. I know he is killer etc. but the look on his face and the way he ran seems he just wanted to do it quickly and disappear.

    ——————————————————————

    Totally loved the episode.

    I think Hurley and Miles scene was good. I liked the exchange between the two breaking up some of the Ben dying who wants to help drama. I think that Jack listening to that exchange changed his mind (was he thinking he could kill Ben and end all of this) and ironically led him to not do the one thing that could have changed young Ben becoming the adult Ben we know.
    —–

    I agree with you that this is the first time I have actually liked Kate and enjoyed a Kate-centric episode. Though totally loved Sawyer’s I’m doing this for Juliet….

    —–

    It seemed to me that Richard was particularly interested in young Ben (not only from I have met this kid before point of view). It was like he knew Ben is important).
    —–

    So it seems that Ellie and Widmore are leader(s). Interesting that Richard says I don’t work for them. During Ben’s leadership also Richard has been shown doing his own thing with supplying Locke information about his father and Sawyer……

    The only person Richard has recognised as a leader is Locke so far (Am I right in thinking that). Any thoughts people.

    —–

    Last thought- how much did you love the expression on Sawyer’s face on hearing about Clementine. (Another mystery answered, which pretty much all fans guessed)

  • betterworldforus

    yeah! after all lost is becaming interesting again!!!

    thank god!!!

    http://betterworldforus.wordpress.com

  • renewkir

    ** This is my first post. Hope I don’t blow it.

    ** With Ellie and Widmore still on the island, it got me thinking about that whole connection again. It seems pretty safe to me to assume that Ellie is Eloise, and she and Widmore are obviously something (siblings, rivals, co-leaders or lovers). And it’s always seemed very likely that Charles is Daniel’s father, given his financing Daniel’s lab work. So what if in the past three years, Ellie and Charles have conceived either Daniel or Daniel and Penny. Maybe that’s the reason Daniel isn’t anywhere to be found anymore, because the island has a tendency to keep people away from their former selves (Charlotte disappearing in 1974, Ben failing to leap to 1974). It’s not a hard and fast rule (like when Sawyer saw Kate and Claire in the jungle during a leap), but it makes sense almost all the time, and it could explain why Farraday has vanished.

    ** I also enjoyed the conversation between Hurley and Miles. Yeah, for people who keep up with the show on the internet to make sense of it, the 12 Monkeys concept should be a no-brainer. But for most casual fans, that conversation has probably occurred sometime in the past few months. I thought it was kinda clever.

    ** The new passive-aggressive Jack is no more likable than the old ultra-aggressive Jack.

    ** That being said, I loved Jack’s line about how Kate didn’t like the old Jack, either.

    ** I wonder what will happen with Roger. He seems to have found a heart for his son for the first time in his life, and now, it will appear that Ben just disappeared from the infirmary. Somebody’s gonna have to pay. Hope it’s Phil.

    ** I’m not buying that Jack’s purpose is to not perform surgery on Ben. He could have completed that task by not coming to the island at all.

    ** Handing Ben over to the Others was a pretty grim task for Sawyer and Kate. They essentially set the purge in motion. Everything always happened, but they set out to save a little boy, and they really just ordered the deaths of dozens of other people.

    ** Was it just me, or did it sound like some of the characters had colds? Especially Sawyer.

  • Dave

    First things first, @meg7 and natego – I’m actually really glad I saw next week’s promo. It’s not that I need any more motivation to watch the show, but I absolutely can’t wait to see next week.
    `
    I’m suspecting a busy day at work, so posting may be sparse from me, so here’s what I want to get out:
    `
    1. I also liked the episode a lot. Probably the best Kate-centric one we’ve seen in a long time (ever?).
    `
    2. I always assumed they airdropped in the busses, or else they brought them in on a freighter. There’s nothing magical about the sub – in 2004, the reason the sub is the only thing that gets in and it is because that’s the only thing the Looking Glass is talking to :)
    `
    3. When Sayid shot the guy who Ben said killed his wife, he was bitter and put more than enough rounds into him. When Sayid shot Young Ben, he had to convince himself that it was what he needed to do, but couldn’t bring himself to put more than one bullet into a kid.
    `
    4. The way the Others were talking about Ellie and Widmore sure sounded a lot like both were in charge. I’m sure there’s plenty to glean from that, but I’m just looking forward to learning more about them. As for Richard, he recognizes Other leaders, but he doesn’t answer to them.
    `
    5. It’s interesting that Sawyer and Kate apparently don’t tell the DI about the deal for Ben’s soul.
    `
    6. It’s also interesting that Sawyer is apparently still consciously choosing Juliet over Kate (good for him!). We’ll see how long that holds up.
    `
    7. I’m starting to think that a few characters are going to die in the Purge.

  • macevangelist

    When Miles explains to Hurley the rules of time travel, he mentions Ben turning the wheel.
    When did he learn about that?

  • Kemper

    I’ve always thought that Evangeline Lily as Kate was the weakest link on the show, and that the Jack/Kate/Sawyer was the least interesting storyline. But this was an episode that made me a Kate fan. At least for now. The scenes where she was leaving Aaron was heartbreaking, and the scene where she told the grandmother that she was going back to the island to find Claire made Kate my new Lost hero.
    .
    About the time travel theory of ‘Whatever Happened, Happened’. I think it works really well in terms of the story flow of this show. Isn’t that what they’ve always done in one form or another with the flashbacks/flashforwards? A plot point is established. (For example, we find out that Locke was in a wheelchair but we didn’t know why. Or we found out that Jack and Kate got off the island, but we didn’t know how or who else left.)
    .
    Then the subsequent story fills in the holes so that we find out how or why something happened. The time travel stuff is doing the same thing. We know what Ben grows up to be and that the Others are going to destroy the original Dharma Initiative, we just don’t know how or why it happens. This is how they’ve always told the stories, the time travel theory just makes the characters aware of it. They know the results, they just don’t know the events that cause them.

  • Dave

    @macevangelist – I just figured that Daniel told them what happened, since Daniel knows freakishly much about the Island and what’s going on.

  • Matt

    @renewkir – it doesn’t seem like Daniel “disappeared”. He’s probably a) with the Hostiles (my personal guess/hope) or b) holed up somewhere with Pierre Chang.
    .
    @ Dave – I don’t expect the Losties to stay with the DI through the early 90s (they’d age too much!), I think they’re leaving at the Incident. But yes, I do expect a character or two to die in the Incident.
    .

  • antilles13

    I really liked this episode. I had a little different reaction to both Kate and Jack though.
    -
    1. Kate. It’s clear the main reason she took Aaron for herself was for her own personal reasons, but I think a lot of what James mentioned played into it as well (she didn’t trust anyone else, etc.). But I think giving him back was heart-wrenching for her simply because she had been raising him for almost 3 years. She TOOK Aaron mostly for herself, but she’s going back (and therefore giving him up) for Aaron and for Claire. (Which is in stark contrast to what I at least assumed she was about to tell Sawyer last week – that she came back for him.) She’s trying to right her wrong, and really take care of him. She had selfish reasons for taking him (perhaps only subconscious reaons), but her reason for going back is purely to take care of Aaron in the largest sense by finding his real Mom, though there are probably some selfish redemptive reasons in there as well. I totally bought it. (Though for me, it didn’t mesh at all with Kate telling Jack, “Don’t ever ask me about Aaron again.” That still doesn’t make sense to me.)
    -
    2. Jack. Jack has done a complete 180 this season – he’s the new Locke. He came back b/c it’s what he was “supposed” to do. I think part of why he didn’t do anything for young Ben is b/c he was given no sense or indication that he was “supposed” to save him (again). Just the opposite: everything in his soul is telling him it was wrong to save Ben the first time, and that he screwed up the Island’s plans by doing so. He said as much to Kate in the kitchen. He knows he’s there for a reason, and until he learns what that reason is he isn’t getting in the Island’s way.
    -
    In another sense, I think Jack’s trying to do this time what he wanted to do from the beginning – just survive and get by, without having to shoulder the burden of being leader. He never wanted it in the first place, but it was forced on him by others like Charlie, Hurley and Kate. I think he’s standing up for what he wants this time – “I’ll do what the Island wants me to, because I believe it’s what I’m supposed to do, otherwise I’m keeping to myself.” Juliet was right about that part, at least.

  • macevangelist

    @Dave…

    I guess so, Dave. Maybe we see them all follow Daniel down into the frozen chamber in a flashback…

  • natego

    @Dave, I don’t need any extra motivation to watch this show.. I’m like a rabid dog come Wednesday night, no matter what! :)

  • Chaddogg

    I’m stewing this episode over in my mind, but here’s one thought:
    .
    Are we sure that Jack could have saved Ben?
    .
    I mean, I gather that he’s supposed to be a good surgeon, and he’s made miracles happen medically speaking, but if he HAD tried to save Ben, are we sure he would have succeeded?
    .
    Playing along with “whatever happened, happened” — Jack was ALWAYS supposed to not save Ben in 1977, so that Ben would get “Temple-fied” or whatever. If Jack HAD tried to save him, doesn’t it follow that he would have failed? (And doesn’t it now follow that Jack was ALWAYS supposed to save Ben in 2004 SO THAT he could come back and not save him in 1977, forcing Sawyer and Kate to break the truce and get Alpert involved?)
    .
    Overall, though, I really liked the episode. Some great dramatic work by Lilly, comedic work by Miles and Hurley, and the scene between Juliet and Jack was AMAZINGLY powerful.
    .
    Oh yeah — I almost forgot: any scene between Locke and Ben? Instant Emmy-submission, in my opinion.

  • Chaddogg

    @macevangelist — Miles would have HAD to have known about Ben turning the wheel because he was there when Locke turned it. Locke knew Ben turned it, mentioned it to all the DI-Losties, and that’s how Miles knew about Ben turning the wheel.

  • natego

    Anyone notice a line I deem important: “Where’s the doctor” “He’s at the Looking Glass”.. anyone else wondering exactly who the doctor is? Or, do y’all think this line is trivial.

  • archstanton68

    @Chaddogg: I think we can assume that Jack would have saved Ben. Juliet thought he would be OK if an actual surgeon was around because she just needed to find the source of the bleeding.

    Whether that originally happened is irrelevant, since the island would have just course-corrected anyway. One way or another, Ben was going to survive.

    I actually think Jack WAS supposed to save him, and what we’re seeing now is the course-correction. We know from previous episodes that Ben was still in the DI at the time of the purge, and that his dad was apparently still treating him like garbage. with what we saw last night, both of those facts are in doubt, especially his dad’s attitude.

  • daradeclares

    I really liked this episode, another strong one in a strong season. I liked that they pretty much took the most basic path to fit the landmarks we already had for Kate’s time back home. So much of the chatter on the internet was about something else happening to her, some other influence, and then it was just her dealing with her actions and making a different choice. Which is what the island does to you (it’s what growing up does too, but on this show it’s the island.)

    I had been wondering, after we learned that no one was forcing the O-6 to lie, how Kate was going to manage to fulfill Sawyer’s final wish, so I was glad to see that. I do think that the whole “you took the kid to mend a broken heart”(!?!) is still only Cassidy’s interpretation of things. We don’t know if it is what was going on in Kate’s head, that she was becoming a Mom to overcome heartbreak, but it showed her that it was for her — as a prop to show she’d changed or out of guilt or saddness, or because it would look good in court, not for Claire or Aaron alone. But whatever reason she originally kept him,she had been his mother and doing the right thing, what a huge wrenching step, so no wonder she was so upset when she went to Jack. But why he could never ask her about it? Unless she didn’t want to get in trouble for “telling”.

    And to have all that balanced out by the funniest meta-conversation about time-travel ever. And James, going back to your question about ultimate answers comparing this to BG., they are certainly acknowledging that people want answers!

    And as for the time travel, what gets me about it is how it shows that different roads lead to the same result.
    a. the losties never go back Ben is abused by his father until he needs to kill all Dharmabums
    b. the losties go back after Ben has abused the hell out of them and one of them attempts to kill him, and one of them who can won’t save him, leading him to be taken to people who will ROB HIM OF HIS INNOCENCE (what the hell does that mean anyway????)
    but
    c. the losties go back Sayid tries to kill Ben, Ben’s Dad realizes the error of his ways, Jack steps up and saves Ben and Bens Dad tries to make ammends, hence no angery teenager to be the inside guy on the purge.

    So there could have been a way out of it, but it wasn’t taken. Can’t change the past. But there seem to be lots of ways to live it anyway.

    And to that, when Juliet confronted Jack and he said he came back to do something but didn’t know what, I was expecting Juliet to say “how do you know it wasn’t this?” Because how does he know it wasn’t this, and like Charlie’s death no matter how many times Ben’s saved he would still get to the place where he gasses the village. But now Jack has to live with not stepping in and seeing whatever it is the Hostiles do to Ben.

  • archstanton68

    @natego: isn’t the doctor the same one who couldn’t deliver Ethan, necessitating Juliet intervention. Which, btw, I’d still like to know how they explained that one to the DI. Was she a mechanic who took an emergency C-section weekend seminar or what?

  • Dave

    @natego – I had the fleeting thought that the doctor mentioned was Mikhail :) But I think it may be inconsequential. The doctor wasn’t there, so they needed Jack.
    `
    @Chad – Locke knew Ben did something, but he only knew the Orchid was important. He didn’t know it was a wheel until he got to the chamber. Either way, I assume Daniel knew about the wheel and how it caused all the havoc.
    `
    Re: Jack saving Ben. Yes, in hindsight, we know that Jack has never saved Ben, but like Miles was saying, that was their present, so they didn’t know the outcome. Could the show have played it out that Jack saved Ben, then Sayid shooting him was forever his motivation for Ben being Ben? Sure, we hadn’t seen it yet :) But I agree, this was a very good episode. I really like how they played it out.
    `
    @archstanton – I’m with Chad; Jack never saved Ben, and Ben was always taken into the Temple.
    `
    Roger showed remorse when his son was dying, but he’s going to fall back on old habits. The Purge scene between Ben and Roger was what tells us that Sawyer and Kate don’t tell the DI about the deal for Ben’s soul they made with Richard.
    `
    Speaking of the deal for Ben’s soul… was Richard just putting on a show? He knew that Ben was special already, so he knew that Smokey/the Temple would heal him, and he knew that once the Island saved him in Richard’s arms, he’d never willingly go back to the DI without being a Hostile, so Richard cooked up the selling-his-soul story so that they wouldn’t suspect Richard of being in contact with Ben previously?

  • rosseau

    Hello everybody. First time poster, long time reader. I haven’t seen this anywhere else, but I am pretty sure that the supermarket scene where Kate almost loses Aaron is a direct reference to Ian McEwan’s novel, The Child in Time (written long before Atonement). From what I have heard, the hero of the novel lives in a dystopian future and one day, loses his young daugther in a supermarket. Her name is Kate.

    From wikipedia:

    “The book deals with the theory that time is relative, and that time can be fluid and unstructured. In one respect it could be viewed as a time travelling story”

  • rosseau

    Excuse me, daughter. It’s pretty early in the morning…

  • Tom Shaw

    Don’t have much to add: This was a spinning-our-wheels episode that actually featured decent Kate flashbacks for once, mixed with stupefyingly dumb motivational retcons:
    -
    In Season 4, Sawyer was the one pushing for the relationship with Kate. But now we’re told that once freedom (and the relationship) was at hand, he jumps ship (well, helicopter)?
    -
    “Why didn’t Ben remember getting shot?” Ben remembering it would explain so much – his Juliet fixation, his always being a half step ahead of the 815ers, their inclusion on his Lists, etc. Instead, the magical Otherizer gets put to use – also leading to the question of why Dharma would ever welcome him back/trust him again. (As well as turning Ben’s joining The Others from a choice into coercion.)
    -
    Kate now took care of Aaron because of her broken heart – except Jack & Kate were already friendly at the time of Christian’s funeral, and would have been together shortly had the Aaron parentage bomb not been dropped. Not to mention that, IIRC season 4 correctly, Kate broke up with Sawyer, Locke kicked her out of Otherville, then she met up with Claire/Aaron and didn’t want to have anything to do with him. But two days later on Penny’s boat she is raising Aaron because she’s heartbroken over the man who she already dumped? What?
    -
    Actually, I get more upset with the retcons the more I think about them. Sigh.
    -
    But there were a couple bits I liked:
    So Widmore & Hawking are indeed still on The Island (and Widmore’s banishing is The Incident). That in itself isn’t surprising, but it means that young Penny is probably running around with The Others “now”. So we get the creepy/icky factor of young Ben playing with young Penny back at the 1977 Temple while in 2007 Ben is busy trying to kill her?
    And shouldn’t Daniel be born now as well? Is Charles his father, making Dan & Penny half/whole brother & sister? But doesn’t that counter the nosebleed order, where Sawyer (who had spent only 100 days there) picked one up before Daniel? Or is 1977 Hawking just extremely pregnant with Daniel?
    And yet more people know that the 815 cover story is a lie. Not that we should be surprised – when the public finds out that nearly every member of the O6 happen to be on 316 (that also disappears without a trace) the guano will hit the fan anyway. So is that the big season finale twist – once everyone gets back to 2008 after The Incident, we find out that Dharma has been reconstituted – and gone public with The Island? With the Dharma video that Jack filmed which we saw way back in the first Season 5 preview as evidence A?

  • antilles13

    After reading Seppinwell’s post – I second everything he said. Which was kind of what I said before, only a lot better.
    -
    @rousseau – that’s interesting. I wonder if Doc Jensen’s going to hit on it, that seems right up his alley. But now that you bring up the supermarket scene, was anyone else totally freaked out by the blonde woman. I mean, she sort of looked like Claire, but in a freaky, almost grotesque kind of way. Like a bad Picasso or something.
    -
    And I laughed out loud when Aaron changed his mind and asked for a juice box. My 2 year old has done that to me so many times…

  • Chaddogg

    1) Time to jump back on the bandwagon of my ever-popular Lost as Star Wars Theory: Jack — as if there is any doubt that Jack is Luke (and that Jack-Kate-Sawyer is Luke-Leia-Han Solo, but without the brother-sister Luke-Leia relationship killer), we now have Jack “letting go” of his feelings in a sense, letting “the Force” (aka the Island) do what it will with young Ben because “whatever happened, happened.” I mean, put yourself in Jack’s shoes — he’s always had a savior complex, he saved Ben once and it only caused him more pain and the loss of more lives, and he knows that whatever he does, Ben is going to live. Why run to do the surgery? Regardless of what Jack does — save Ben or let him die — Ben is always going to grow up to torment the 815ers. Jack is “letting go” and not trying to force things — instead he’s letting the Force do its thing.
    .
    2) I’m also getting a powerful foreshadowing that Jack is going to make some type of sacrifice of himself — he’s got that Locke-ian “I’m here for some reason” thing going on, and I think it will be to die in sacrifice to save the rest of them. Call it the Tale of Two Cities idea….
    .
    3) The pure look of shock on Ben’s face when he sees Locke alive was amazing.

  • texgator

    renewkir said, “Handing Ben over to the Others was a pretty grim task for Sawyer and Kate. They essentially set the purge in motion. Everything always happened, but they set out to save a little boy, and they really just ordered the deaths of dozens of other people.”
    .
    I thought the same thing. Juliet, Kate, and Sawyer seem to struggle with the moral implications of letting a 12-year old Ben die but seem to have no problem with condemning other innocent children to die in the purge at the hands of this same Ben. I get that Juliet feels that nothing is written so in theory Ben doesn’t have to become to monster that he does but one would think that these particular people have a little better understanding of the nature of time and fate and would thus know that in all likelihood Ben will always grow up to become a killer. Now they could say if its meant to be that doesn’t mean that they have to do something that they would consider immoral or they could be like Jack and say what happens might happen but that doesn’t mean I have to be a part of it (passive aggressive) or like Sayid and say I might not be able to stop any of this but I will do everything I can to try to stop it even if it costs me my soul or my very existence (nihilistic). It’s these facets of the underlying character choices that I find really interesting about Lost.
    .
    One more thing…Has Richard been planning the purge since the truce was originally broken by Sawyer saving Amy? Does Richard know that Ben will lead the purge (even though it hasn’t happened in Richard’s timeline? The reason I ask is that Richard almost seemed to give Kate and Sawyer a chance to not save Ben when he explained that the process of healing Ben would cost him his “innocence”. If this is the case why would Richard offer them that opportunity? It almost felt like he was saying “You are offering me the rope with which you will hang yourselves. Are you sure you want to do this?” For me it was one of the most interesting exchanges of the episode.

  • shara says

    I totally dug this episode, but then again I’ve never gotten on the Kate Hate Bandwagon, she’s always been one of my favorites. I thought it was definitely one of the best Kate episodes in a long time, and I pretty much liked everything about it. A few thoughts:
    .
    So Richard: If its true that he doesn’t really answer to the leaders, then what exactly is his position? I’m wondering if perhaps there is some version of divine right of kings going on – the ruler (Ben, Widmore, Ellie) is in charge of the people, but he/she answers to the ageless spiritual leader and his/her power derives from the spiritual leader’s authority.
    .
    Otherization: There seem to be two restoring avenues on the island. First is just the island itself, which healed John and Rose and Jin and others just because they were there. That seems to leave people linked to the island (Rose didn’t want to go, John was Island John, Claire, if she was restored, took off into the jungle). The other avenue is The Temple, where apparantly Otherization happens via Smoky (which EITHER gives them a different perspective on All Things Islandy OR somehow robs them of their free will or self).

    So, Ben is being Robbed of his Innocence. So either the Island is going to TAKE something from him (possibly an element of free will/self?), like an ancient god might demand a sacrifice for services rendered, or the Island is going to GIVE something to him. I was kinda getting a Tree of Knowledge vibe from that line. Maybe its that when the Temple restores somebody, they are gifted with some broader understanding of important things – which could cast a whole new light on that whole shootout scene with Rousseau and her team. Maybe the dudes that were different weren’t trying to harm Rousseau, but give her an opportunity to Join the Jedis or whatever.
    .
    Yay for the time travel conversation, that cracked me up. Especially Hurley “winning” at the end by stumping Myles.
    .
    I really liked the tense scenes with Kate and Jack, especially the moment where he reminded her that she never really liked the Old Jack either (which just reminded me how much I’ve never liked the dude anyway).
    .
    I love that actress that plays Cassidy (I’m not gonna put her name because every post where I include her name has gotten held up for moderation), but I thought that she was being a little hard on Sawyer’s actions on the helicoptor. I can see her having major hard feelings, but at least that might have given Kate some doubt about Sawyer that made it easier for her to hear THAT AWESOME LINE where Sawyer basically tells Kate the he and Juliet are tight, and that he and Kate never would have worked out. I was cheering when Sawyer said “I’m doing this for her”.
    .
    This is taking forever I’m gonna go get caught up on new posts before writing anything else.

  • antilles13

    @Tom Shaw – I don’t know that young, “immature” Sawyer wanted a relationship with Kate so much as he wanted sex. He wasn’t exactly a long term kind of guy. And Kate was certainly pissed at him when she left New Otherton, but I don’t remember any indication that it was a permanent decision. She jumped back and forth so many times…

  • daradeclares

    @ Shara — I like your take on Richard, and it seems to be how Christian is working pulling the strings, pointing the way for others (small o others not capital O others) actions.

  • shara says

    @natego: “Why would Ben insist John’s body be brought back to the island, only to be shocked and scared about him being alive when then get there… It seems he knew John would come back to life, but is still scared and shocked????”
    .
    I don’t get that either – that’s a big question. Could it be that Ben was just scared that Locke would be looking for retribution, rather than shocked that he was actually alive? I mean, Ben might have gone to all that trouble with the body just to make sure that the events were closely recreated on the plane, but it really did seem like he was expecting something bigger.
    .
    @renewkir & rosseau: Welcome!

  • Matt

    @shara & natego – I’ve been getting the sense this season, that contrary to what he forcefully said to Locke last year, he does NOT “always have a plan”. He’s not a leader any more (by following Hawking). He freaked out at Jack & Sun in the van earlier this season. He messed up something (probs with Penny & Des), got bloodied and arm-broken.
    .
    Being a fantastic improviser does not a planner make. All this is to say, I don’t think that Ben *knew* Locke would be ressurected. He’s playing it by ear now, much more than before – remember, he doesn’t know (granted, says he doesn’t know) where Hurley, Jack, Kate & Sayid went.

  • davidel

    new to this, but there is something that bothers me…in some episode of season 1 or 2, the losties get DI supplies, apparently parachuted from an airplane. How would that be possible?

  • http://www.sl-lost.com/2009/04/02/ep-511-whatever-happened-happened-critics-reviews/ sl-LOST.com – Daily LOST News » Blog Archive » Ep. 5.11 “Whatever Happened, Happened” – Critics’ Reviews

    [...] 3. James Poniewozik (Time): [...]

  • http://lost-blog.com/2009/04/ep-511-%e2%80%9cwhatever-happened-happened%e2%80%9d-critics%e2%80%99-reviews/ Ep. 5.11 “Whatever Happened, Happened” – Critics’ Reviews | Lost Blog

    [...] 3. James Poniewozik (Time): [...]

  • Dave

    @davidel – that’s one of the unanswered questions we’re hoping will be answered in DI times right now, I’m guessing towards the end of the season.
    `
    That’s actually a good lead-in to something I’ve been stewing on all morning: why wait until 1992 for the Purge? Initially I was wondering why the Hostiles don’t just wipe out the DI from the get-go, but then I figured that the Hansos would sweep in with whatever power they have and lay the smack down. So do Richard’s and Ben’s off-Island groups/companies/conglomerates manage to somehow render the Hanso Foundation impotent enough to not retaliate in 1992? Yet somehow, they’re able to still ship supplies for the Swan team? (Side note: were the Others aware of the button in the Swan? It seems that they weren’t.) The Others had to have been aware of people in the Swan, and they had to have good reason not to kill them or get in their way. So maybe they did know about the button. Did they always have someone ready to spring into action should Des or Kelvin kill themselves (when they were respectively alone, that is)?
    `
    Maybe that’s why the Hansos auctioned off the Black Rock Journal in 1996. They didn’t need it any more.

  • keenacar

    So, if every thing that happens already happened, then why does Desmond wake up with a new memory of Farraday telling him to look for his mother?

  • daradeclares

    @ Dave, OR despite the disdain Ben has for the Dharma experiments & weird equipment other Hostiles wanted/needed them to finish building their stations before they were taken out. And as an adjunct to that maybe do a “hostile takeover” of the Dharma headquarters in Ann Arbor too.

  • jimmycrack

    Nobody’s pointed this out, but I thought it was cool to see a call-back to the “Catch a Falling Star” song, the one Kate sings to baby Aaron on her first visit to Cassidy. The song’s previously been mentioned by Claire as something her father (?) sang to her when she was a baby, and I believe it was also the tune played by a mobile in the Dharma/Other abandoned nursery. Don’t know if it’s significant, but it was subtle and awesome.
    .
    I’ll also come down on the side of those who bought Kate’s reasons for doing what she did. Given all that she’s gone through, not least seeing an entire fricking island disappear into thin air along with many friends and loved ones, her deciding to keep Aaron as a defense against a complete breakdown seemed real to me (it also somewhat mirrored her irrational attachment to the toy airplane in her earlier life — a talisman to anchor herself against the chaos of her life). And, if I remember last night’s episode correctly, I think she told Sawyer that it was Cassidy who believed that he jumped the helicopter because he didn’t want to commit to her. I think the reality behind their actions is emotionally complicated enough that any explanation is going to be partial and still somewhat true.

  • bankerman61

    Agreed about the food drop from the DI in late season 1 or 2. If no one can find the island, how come the DI plane can drop it’s package right on target. Plus why all that food for one-two people?

    BTW, what do the Others eat? Can they grow enough food in New Otherton to feed that many people? The New Othertonites seemed quite fat and happy.

    My latest theory–Widmore sent the DI food plane once the 815 news hit. He knew where the island was and had the resources to do the drop. So that leads to the question of who is in charge of the DI in 2004? Widmore? And was the food meant for the 815 survivors, or does Widmore feed the Others as part of a peace pact?

    Another thing that bothers me–the episode where Miles, Daniel and Charlene are shown finding out that the wreckage of 815 has been found–was that in 2004? Who was the woman Daniel was with? Was that the English woman in the coma back at Oxford? A when did Miles start talking to ghosts?

    Also, since Miles is back in 1977 with the DI he probably isn’t Chang’s kid.

  • natego

    One thing I have seen on the net pointed out that is interesting..
    In ep. 10, and ep 11. the gunshot wound on Little Ben is on two different sides of his chest.. Mistake? Done on purpose? Pretty interesting…

  • Dave

    @bankerman61 – I suspect that the Others always allowed the plane coming to see where the Island is (through the Looking Glass and the Lamp Post stations working together, probably). Who’s to say that they only dropped one pallet of food? Maybe they dropped pallets around the Island. Also, it appears that the pallet drops were a regular part of the station’s setup, because it went on lockdown when the food dropped.
    `
    I think the shots of the science team finding out about 815 was in 2004, but I’m not sure who to think the girl with Daniel is. I recall her having a ring on her finger, so maybe it is the girl in a coma, who Daniel could have been engaged to?
    `
    We don’t know much about Miles past and talking to ghosts, though there’s no reason he can’t be Chang’s kid. (Some fans speculate that people can’t have two versions of themselves at the same time or in proximity at the same time, but there’s no evidence of this at all) Considering when Charlotte, Miles, and Juliette all got their nosebleeds, it definitely stands to reason that Miles is the Chang baby.
    `
    Speaking of babies, I suspect that Ellie is either currently (in the 1977 present) pregnant with Daniel or will be soon. I still think Radzinsky’s the father… maybe part of the Other falling out (why aren’t Hawking and Widmore together in the 2004-2008 present?) involves Ellie, being brilliant and awesome, having an affair with Radzinsky, who is also brilliant, though significantly less awesome. For someone who adamantly hates Hostiles, it seems fitting that he’d fall for one :)

  • profdante

    Well, I thought this was a very well-done episode. It is interesting how desperately Sawyer is trying to maintain his stable Dharma-life, yet ultimately he risks all of that for the chance to help Freckles. I also thought that the scene when Juliet confronted Jack was excellent — she has always seemed kinda blah to me, but that really showcased her anger and confusion at Jack et al. (side question: I wonder why she (and Sawyer and Miles and Jin) aren’t more curious about life in 2008. Wouldn’t Juliet ask what might have happened to her sister?).
    .
    Finally, the Others mindwipe is a bit of a convenience, true, but I realized that it actually might explain something that has bothered me for a while now, and that is the bizarre behavior of Cindy. Presumably, after she was taken, she (and the kids?) were brought to the Temple and Otherized in the same way, which could be why each time we’ve seen Cindy since, she has always seemed like a Stepford-Other.

  • jimmycrack

    @bankerman61 — Yes, the freighter folk flashbacks in the “Confirmed Dead” episode took place in late 2004. The woman in Daniel’s flashback was identified as his caretaker. And she didn’t sound British, so it’s unlikely she is the Oxford coma woman.
    .
    And it’s entirely possible for Miles to be Chang’s son even though he’s in the DI in 1977 because the Lost time travel rules say that during that period of 1974 to 1977, two versions of each of our time travellers exist at the same time. In Miles’ (possible) case, both versions exist on the same island at the same time.

  • http://www.simonvinkenoog.nl/beeld/Yogi%20-%20Annelies%20Rigter.jpg yogi

    I too thought this was a good episode fore Kate. One question that comes to my mind is, was Juliet ‘otherized’ in the temple? I mean, we’ve seen in previous episodes that she speaks latin “because [she's] an other” and had lived with them for 3 years.

  • Dave

    @jimmycrack – The only place I’ve heard her described as Daniel’s caretaker was in the enhanced episode’s pop-up. Since the enhanced episodes are done by a third party, we can’t consider them canon (though with things like knowing Eloise’s name, they knew that, so it’s possible they got ‘caretaker’ from a script they could have been working off… I don’t know how the enhanced episodes are made).

  • meg7

    @shara
    I really like your theory on otherization and your thoughts as Richard being a spiritual leader of the others. Is that what Christian is for our losties?
    ————

    I liked the way they potrayed Kate’s character in this episode. To me it makes sense that she would tell Jack never to ask her about Aaron again.
    When she is recounting losing Aaron to Cassidy, she says she expected this to happen. Kate feels like she is a lousy mother (I agree, who leaves their kid’s hand while you are in a store,but that aside) she never had what one would call model parents. She has never taken care of anyone but herself. And she tends to run away from dealing with issues into Jack or Sawyers arms (whoever she finds first I guess). She swings like a pendulum between the two men and misses the one she is not with. I liked that she finally got her act together, grew up and did what is best for Aaron. In her mind she can never be a good mother so she is getting Aaron’s mother back for him and assuage her own guilt of leaving people behind (you could see that when Sun mentioned Jin and again when Claire was mentioned by her mother).
    Up till last episode it looked like she was going to say she was back for sawyer which would totally have sucked coz she slept with Jack on the eve of coming back for Sawyer. Not even Kate would be that low.

    ————-

    How can little Penny and a kid Ben be at the island at the same time. I think Penny was either born of the island or is not born yet. The gap in their ages does match with 12 yr old Ben playing with Penny as a child.

    ————-

    I wonder if Ben is scared because he had not seen Locke as yet (he had seen Sun and Frank and knew the other O4 were not on the hydra island) so he may have thought Locke too is not with them.

    ————
    I think Daniel is with Chang somewhere working on the Orchid or coming up with time travel theories. From the one clip we saw he seemed to be keeping in close contact with the Orchid. Maybe when they moved in with DI part of the plan was for Daniel to figure out how to get them back to 2008 and he has been working with the Orchid station as part of that.

    ———–

    I think Desmond got a new memory because he is “special”, as has been mentioned before seems like the rules don’t apply to him. I wonder if Widmore knows this. You would think he would try to manipulate this to his advantage rather than rely on Locke (Who I really like but he is gullible and listens to anyone who tells him he is special).

    ———–

  • natego

    @jimmycrack.. where is it said that she is Daniel’s Caretaker?? I don’t remember this ever being clarified. I still think she could be someone else, and that perhaps Daniel is not in need of a caretaker.
    .
    @profdante – the 06 have no knowledge that Juliet has a sister. Why would she ask them about her?
    .

  • natego

    further.. in Daniels crying scene the woman is very casual.. she asks him how he likes his eggs. He looks dressed in an outfit with wet hair that implies either he just got out of the shower, or came in from outside raining/snowing. Just didn’t seem like a caretaker/patient situation.

  • shara says

    @meg7 – I dunno about Christian. Perhaps Richard and Christian are both manifestations of the island, perhaps neither of them are. I tend to assume that Christian is less corporeal than Richard, but I don’t know if i’m basing that on any actual evidence – just because he is less accessible, and he only appears to certain people at certain times. But then again, Christian’s body did disappear from the coffin (a la Locke) and he did pet Vincent at one point. . . Richard is also an acknowledged figure, known to a lot of folks and taking an active role in diplomacy and whatnot, and notsomuch with Christian. Hard to say, because a lot of these Otherized folks are so mysterious and cryptic – like that chick that was married to Goodwin that showed up to hassle Juliet in the jungle before suddenly pulling a Starbuck – was she really there? Was she just that spooky of a ninja and snuck off, or was she just a manifestation of the Island that just vanished? Do otherized people have island-aided stealth capabilities? Makes my head spin.
    .
    Whoa, that was a long-winded non-answer to a reasonable question. I think that Christian will (hopefully) play more of a role in either this season or next season, because a lot of questions are tied up in the mystery that is him.

  • jimmycrack

    OK, I guess I don’t know for sure that the woman was Farraday’s caretaker. That is what the enhanced rerun of that episode said, but if we can’t believe that, then it’s up for grabs. (Although I think Cuse and Lindelhof may have mentioned it in a podcast….).
    .
    Either way, given her accent (from what I remember), she didn’t seem to be British and therefore didn’t seem to be the coma woman. I don’t think there’s any necessary reason to believe she’s significant at this point.

  • hold2file

    James Poniewozik,

    Thank You. Bless You.

    After your enlightening summary about “last night’s episode” there is NO FRAKING WAY that I am every going to watch “Lost” again, even on re-runs.

    When I graduated college 36 years ago I decided to stop smoking pot, and you have documented that watching “Lost” creates an equivalent state of irrationality.

    Or as David Hannum said about P.T. Barnum’s (fake) stone giant, “There’s a sucker born every minute.”

  • natego

    @hold2file.. wow dude.. its a TV show. Lighten up!

  • meg7

    @ shara

    Richard seems more corporeal than Christian but I wonder if that is because we know he is dead, body was in coffin and all, whereas Richard is mysterious and we don’t know what his origin is.

    About the girl who met Juliet in the jungle, she was real and not a manifestation of the island. Damon and Carlton confirmed that in one podcast. She should have been with the Others heading towards that temple and/or waiting for Locke after Ben turned the wheel.

    ——————————-

    Re. Daniel’s caretaker.

    I don’t think she is the coma woman. That would mean that between Daniel seeing the staged crash and getting recruited to go on the island, the woman went into her coma state. From the comments Desmond received when we first met Theresa, it seemed that Daniel bolted when the woman’s state deteriorated. He shut down the lab or was thrown out of Oxford and left Theresa to be.
    At this time I don’t think she is an important character, but then the writers have kept her face out of shot so who knows………

  • shara says

    @meg7 – you’re right, it may all be a matter of perspective with the Richard-Christian thing. What I’m more interested in is how Locke and Christian are alike/different – both came onto the island in a coffin, both were resurrected in some semblance of corporeal form. I’m also very curious about whether Christian had ever come to the island before – I’m thinking that he probably has been there before, and has some inside knowledge of what’s up, and that Christian (directly and indirectly) played a part in pointing several losties on their journey to the island originally (much like Locke did later for the return trip).

  • meg7

    @shara
    Christian being on the island before- interesting possibility.

  • elkaba

    @shara…”So, Ben is being Robbed of his Innocence. So either the Island is going to TAKE something from him (possibly an element of free will/self?), like an ancient god might demand a sacrifice for services rendered, or the Island is going to GIVE something to him. I was kinda getting a Tree of Knowledge vibe from that line. Maybe its that when the Temple restores somebody, they are gifted with some broader understanding of important things…”

    This totally makes me think of DUNE and the bene gesserit process of becomming a reverend mother, or “passing within,” where an initiate drinking the “water of life” acquires the past memories of all reverend mothers who have come before her. If this is similar to the process Richard must use on Ben in the temple, then his “healing” would include acquiring an amount of knowledge certainly sufficient to destroy his innocence…

  • profdante

    apropo of nothing: I want to know when we’re going to find out whether Miles has a ‘purpose.’ He’s gotta be more than comic relief…

  • Matt

    @profdante – could this be another time loop (like the compass)? widmore chose the freighter four for a very specific purpose – what is that purpose was that he knew (in the 50s/70s) that they were on the island before, so they had to be chosen in 2004? it’s not a terribly satisfying reason, but it’s a reason nonetheless

  • shara says

    @meg7 – I really do think that there is more to the Christian backstory than we’ve been shown. If his off-island appearances are viewed in terms of the island, they take on a different connotation (trying to shape Jack into NOT being a leader/decider, the whole trek to Australia with Ana Lucia, the descent into tormented alcholism that paralleled Jack’s post-island meltdown, etc). That, combined with his interacting with multiple losties pre-death, gives me the distinct impression that there’s more there than meets the eye.

  • daradeclares

    @elkaba OOOO I haven’t heard a Dune reference before, what you and Shara are saying is very interesting! It could be why Ben is SO sure he is “one of the good guys” no matter what means he goes to to get to his ends.

  • meg7

    @shara

    You are right. All those connections. Plus meeting Sawyer in that bar. And when you think about it he played a crucial role in making Claire abandon little Aaron, leading Locke to the wheel with the last words of say hello to my son, meeting him in the cabin, meeting Sun and Frank and telling them about Jin and Co….whew
    There must be more to him.

  • Dave

    Re: Ben’s innocence – I mentioned it in passing earlier, but there have been a lot of comments, so I’ll bring up the question again here:
    `
    What if Richard completely made up everything about what will happen if Richard heals Ben (not remembering what happens, losing his innocence, always being a Hostile)? He knows that Ben wants to be a Hostile, he knows that Ben is special, and he knows that Ben hates the DI folk. So what’s going to happen when Ben gets shot in the chest and wakes up in the arms of his idol, the mighty Richard, totally healed? He’ll totally pledge his life and everything to him. So then he goes back, and he’s potentially different. How does Richard explain that? “Oh, he’s always hated you guys, and when I brought him to a magical Island healing place, he decided he’s never coming back.”
    `
    Except that he does come back. And he’s accepted. And what Richard said to Kate and Sawyer apparently never makes it beyond the ears of Our Heroes.
    `
    Re: the science team – we know that Charlotte was born on the Island, we suspect that Miles was born on the Island, and we know that Daniel has deep Island ties and may have been born on the Island. I’d say that’s a pretty strong tie for why those 3 were chosen to “look for Ben.” As for Frank, we know he was supposed to end up there, so maybe he’s got some past on the Island as well.

  • shanerae

    I am so thrilled to find this commentary- its a pleasure to actually post comments when the group is so informed and bright. Many Lost sites (not Dark, and not Jeff Jensen’s community) are desperately uninformed and not paying attention.
    If I had to pick one question out of the zillion that burn my brain when I think of this show that I love and which challenges me like no other has, it is indeed: Christian. Who is he? Why was he on the island telling Vincent to go wake up his son before we even saw Jack? Was Christian killed, not by drinking, but by Benjamin Linus, to set up all the events we are immersed in? And is he “good” or “bad”- because, as Charles said, a war is coming and thus far, honestly, I can’t tell who is on what side!

  • shara says

    @sharerae: Welcome/Namaste :)

  • betterworldforus

    kate wont be able to do the last season!!!

    i wrote something on my blog…

    see ya

  • betterworldforus

    sorry i forgot to say the page

    betterworldforus.wordpress.com

    see ya!

  • natego

    @betterworld If thats true.. I hate you and get the heck out of here forever.. seriously. We don’t need people who are shameless self-promoters, ruining things for everyone!!!! If its just theory, then carry on.

  • Dave

    @natego – I’m pretty sure it’s just someone spamming for their own blog.

  • dh127

    I don’t know if anyone is still reading this. It’s the first chance I’ve had since the show aired. Also my first time to comment, so may be totally off on everything.

    Good line number one from Jack “You didn’t like the old me, Kate.”

    Good line number two from Sawyer to Kate “That’s why I’m doing this. I’m doing it for her.” You just see Kate’s face from the side, but you can see that she’s stunned.

    When Hurley says to Miles “When we first captured Ben and Sayid tortured him, why wouldn’t he remember being shot by that same guy when he was a kid?” Miles replies “Huh! I hadn’t thought of that.” Miles was not even on the island until waaaay after that happened. How could he have thought of it when he would have had no knowledge of it? And who knows if Ben does or does not remember later? Ben never tells anyone anything he doesn’t have to. His “secrets” give him power over others. (Pun intended.)

    Okay, so the rest of this is my idea of what’s going on:

    Richard doesn’t answer to anyone else because he is special in some way. He looks exactly the same in every decade. Am I wrong, or is he the only one who doesn’t age?

    Sayid is a trained killer, but from the beginning he hated it. I can totally believe that he couldn’t bring himself to shoot a child more than once, even if it is Ben. I think that each one of the O6 know, or will come to know, that there is a reason they went back to the island. A “task” if you will. For Kate it’s to find Claire. Jack had been drunkenly screaming in L.A. “We have to go back!” As usual with Jack, he’s reacting rather than planning (as Sawyer recently told him) so he doesn’t know yet what he needs to do. Apparently, Sayid now feels his purpose was to kill Ben. Hurley will probably have something to do with the numbers. Sun went to find Jin. Okay, it’s 3am and I can’t remember who the sixth is – Aaron? (By the way, Jonathan Lipnicki in Jerry Maguire was at least 3 or 4 years older than the actor playing Aaron. He’s behaving the way a 3-year-old should.)

    Speaking of Aaron – I think Kate felt she had to take responsibility for him at first (the trust issue.) I also think the whole “using Aaron to mend her broken heart from Sawyer” is a bunch of bull. (Trying to use clean language here.) Whatever her reasons initially, at the end she loved him as if he were her own son. And Claire came to Aaron’s room that one night and told Kate not to bring him back to the island. “Don’t you dare!” is what I think Claire said. Of course Kate would tell Jack not to mention Aaron again. Her heart really is breaking this time.

    I don’t believe (and I hope Kate doesn’t either) that Sawyer jumped off the helicopter because he was a coward. He started his change from Super Jerk when he and Kate got close. I absolutely love his evolution from the first days on the island to his life at DI with Juliet, and being looked up to and trusted by everyone. I will really be upset if he doesn’t stay faithful to Juliet.

    When Ben’s father was telling Kate how he “just tried to do what he thought Ben’s mother would want him to” I about puked. The guy has been and, I believe will continue to be, a mean alcoholic who blames his son for his wife’s death. I think that was all show for Kate.

    I think Ben either thought or hoped that John would stay dead. He knew he was breaking the rules by going back to the island, and maybe he thought that it was necessary to return John’s body, but that he would be able to take John’s place. The look on his face when he saw that John is alive certainly seemed like shock to me. Boy are there some good actors on this show.

    Wouldn’t it be interesting if the doctor who was away turns out to be Christian?

  • jimmycrack

    @dh127 – Well, that was a lot of comment! I think your points are well-taken overall. As far as the ‘purpose’ of the O6 in coming back, I think it’s going to be pretty grand and tie into the finale of the series. Perhaps something to do with the ‘war’ that Widmore mentioned to Mr. Bentham.
    .
    Your suggestion of Christian as the DI doctor is very interesting. As others have mentioned here, it really does seem that he has some greater connection to the island than has been shown. His connection to so many of the 815ers suggests that he may have been acting similarly to Abaddon, subtly nudging everybody on to Oceanic flight 815 and onto the island. I’m looking forward to seeing this play out in the time that’s left.

  • shanerae

    @dh127- I agree with many of your comments- it was indeed Kate who primarily opened James’ heart, allowing him to care about someone and see that there could be someone who saw good in him and brought that out in him. However…I will be very disappointed if he stayed with Juliet as that is a clear case of rebounding/settling- a cliche- and James has NEVER been a cliche. His character has evolved. I think he needed to learn and evolve so that he could get to a point where he could be the man he is today, but I don’t beleive that man is destined to be with Juliet at ALL. Indeed, I worry that since Juliet must leave the island in order to be recruited by Richard in 2001, he may end up sacrificing himself (again) for both these women that he loves.
    Also agreed that Christian’s relation to the island is yet to be fully revealed. We have been operating under the theory that he died of drinking- but maybe not. Jack is the key to all of this, from “our guys’” side- maybe Ben killed Christian to set all of this in motion for Jack.
    And YEAH Michael Emerson is extraordinary as an actor!

  • shanerae

    for those worried about Evie leaving the show, its not true, and she has said so repeatedly!

  • lostepic

    I’ll be brief considering I havent read any other comments and wouldnt be suprised if someone said it already. I think this was a better episode for Kate agreed with that. I didnt see the time travel discussion between hurley and miles as unneccesary as “hey all you losties are arguing about the concept and here even the characters are arguing about it and cant get it right.” But my major disappointment is that the big “suprise at the end” the man sitting next to injured adult ben was locke. Now any respecting lostie knew that it was locke. what the producers should of done and it would have had more punch would be instead of showing locke on the beach eating mango and then not have him for what two three episodes wait to reveal his living condition untill now would have been better. While most of everyone expected locke to be alive the reveal of it in this episode would have been better and i think we would have all been willing to wait for it.

  • lostepic

    In regards to Lev’s first quibble, which is a ligitamite one, it is easily and solved. Sayid’s great inner torment clouded his judgement. It was fairly obvious Sayid, while taking Jin out non-lethaly, wasn’t firing on all cylinders, and even though Sayid knew who lil ben was going to become, I think you see in Sayids face that killing a child still affects him greatly and not to mention having to deal with the reality of accepting who he is….a killer. If you were suffering an barrage of emotions and regret and self condemnation you wouldnt be the emotionaless bad mama jamma that you were in the past too.

  • lostepic

    I almost forgot about the war. Is anyone else starting to feel that the show is being rushed to tie up the loose ends and that the mystery of it all is being answered to fast? With only a few episodes left and a season I am hope that next season is awesome. I like this one but it feels that there is two many loose ends being tied up and not enough mystery. and the big “reveals” seem misplaced or to the even the average lostie obvious and unsigificant reveals.

blog comments powered by Disqus