Tuned In

Stewart/Cramer: Who's This Song About?

So did Stewart get Cramer? Did he get him good? Did he stick it to him? As I posted yesterday, there’s a big temptation to frame last night’s head-to-head between Jon Stewart and Jim Cramer as a battle between two guys. But as Stewart told Cramer, to his credit, “This song isn’t about you.” (Indeed, Cramer’s thin-skinned personal reaction to an initial Daily Show segment that was about CNBC generally did more to make it about him than anything Stewart did.)

So, be my guest—talk among yourselves about who “won” the interview. (By the way, The Daily Show also has the full unedited exchange online.) Dance in the streets with Cramer’s trophy head held aloft if you like. (As I type, The Huffington Post’s headline is JON STEWART EVISCERATES JIM CRAMER AND CNBC, in VICTORY DECLARED IN EUROPE-sized type. Drudge is rather more coy on the subject.) It was a beatdown, to be sure. (After airing a promo for Cramer’s Mad Money which could have itself been a Daily Show parody: ”I understand you want to make finance entertaining, but it’s not a f__ing game.) But in the long run, it was most fascinating as a discussion about how business journalism in particular and journalism in general are done in America. 

About CNBC generally, Stewart kept returning to the question not only of why the network didn’t report on financial disaster coming, but who CNBC is for at all: “Who are you responsible to? The people in the 401ks and the pensions and the general public, or the Wall Street traders?” Stewart asked (adding that most traders are “bright guys” who are “f__ed in all this too”). 

The answer seems pretty plain if you watch the channel: it’s for the traders. Period. It’s not just that CNBC doesn’t serve average, buy-and-hold investors. It’s that its very existence—at least, as it is presently aimed and structured—goes against their interests. CNBC is by and large about market timing and trading the market in the short term—exactly the sort of thing that average investors should not be doing. (It’s not that CNBC should have sounded some “sell” signal so that 401k investors could have bailed out of the market at the top; trying to do that kind of timing is bad advice for average folks generally. The question is how complicit it was in the market getting to unsustainable heights in an unsustainable manner, thus cleaning those average folks out.)  

But being aimed at traders doesn’t mean being in service of CEOs, who were often seeking to spin at best on the network’s air, and at worst were out-and-out lying. The question, as Stewart came at over and over, was: What did CNBC know and when did it know it? Or, rather: if people like Cramer knew there were shenanigans going on on Wall Street—as shown by clips from his excruciating online video cynically describing manipulations that he said he’d never talk about on TV—then why not call them out? 

A few of Cramer’s responses are especially eye-opening, not just as they relate to business news but to problems that journalism has generally: 

* “These people were my friends.” Cramer said that, or something like it, repeatedly: that longtime friends flat-out lied to him. So problem one: coziness with sources is death for the information business. Now, Cramer is a commentator, not a reporter, and I don’t begrudge him friends per se. But it is a problem when reporters either become too close to their subjects to treat them skeptically, or become so obsessed with access that they are leery of being too skeptical: i.e., “If I do that, they’ll never talk to me again.”

Journalists prize getting people to talk to them, with good reason, but they shouldn’t be hostage to it. Part of the problem is a culture in which interviewing is privileged over research: “reporting” is defined as getting a person to talk to you, preferably a famous person. But as the original Daily Show CNBC clip showed, research can be pretty powerful—then it created a situation where Cramer pretty much had to talk. 

* ”We have reporters who try really hard who were not always told the truth. But most importantly, the market was going up for a long time, and our real sin I think was to believe that it could continue to go up a lot in the face of what you describe.” Again, leave aside the particulars of CNBC here, and there’s another lesson about journalism: it’s always safer to say the thing the last guy said (the market’s going up!) than to be the first one to say the next thing (the market’s going to go down!). Whether it’s CDS’s or WMD’s, the process is the same and the result is a huge loss of credibility and trust. In the long run. In the short run, unfortunately, it’s what gets rewarded. And if there’s one thing the financial crisis has taught us, it’s how often people consider the short run first.

* ”It’s difficult to have a reporter say, ‘I just came from an interview with Hank Paulson, and he lied his darn-fool head off.’ It’s difficult. I think it challenges the boundaries.” OK, this is an easy quote to attack—why not just say he’s lying, damn you!—but in fairness it’s not as simple than that. The real story—and not at all a more flattering story—is that lies like these are not obvious and cut-and-dried: refuting them takes a lot of work and a lot of time and often involves sticking your neck out and going against the crowd (see previous point). Much easier to quote your subject, adding a caveat if necessary, and move on. 

Much easier, too, to make this story about a feud between two cable-TV stars, declare a winner, and move on. Because then we don’t have to recognize that this song is about us.

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  • archstanton68

    I’d like to say that this was an example of what the media must necessarily do, but that’s unrealistic. The reason we rarely see interviews like this is because anyone who conducts them will soon find out that no one wants to talk to them. The system is flawed in that way, but it’s flawed because the public allows it to be. Ideally, submitting to interviews like this should be a basic part of being a politician or CEO of a publicly traded company, but that won’t happen until the public demands it. I just don’t think enough people truly care about such things.

    Instead, CEOs and politicians only take the easy interviews, which most members of the media are all to willing to give because it’s the only way they can get any access.

  • shara says

    I just watched the clips, and that was one of the most satisfying things I’ve seen in a long time. It looked to me like Stewart was brilliant, alpha-dogging Cramer in a firm and methodical and reasonable way. Cramer (whose show I don’t watch, so I don’t know what he is normally like) came off looking like a stammering wuss-bag apologist.
    .
    The scary thing is that it took Jon Stewart and a comedy news show to do the kind of digging and critical examination of issues, something that should be standard for all journalists. I agree with archstanton68 that this kind of critical examination should be the standard for politicians and executives to face. Yeah, maybe that would go ‘against the grain’ or whatever, but isn’t that supposed to be the frakking point of journalism? Isn’t it supposed to “take a lot of work and a lot of time and often involves sticking your neck out and going against the crowd”? Folks like Jon Stewart (and I’d also shout-out to Keith Olberman, who stuck his neck out to criticize the Bush administration back when most everyone else was scared to do so) have been having to carry the torch that the ‘serious’ journalists appear to have abandoned years ago. Another strike against the MSM.

  • Chaddogg

    I think Stewart nailed this interview, for one simple reason — he’s completely correct that CNBC is not “reporting” in the sense of investigating, scrutinizing numbers, questioning everything, and reporting the facts, but rather serving as a mouthpiece for the “insiders” of the Street.
    .
    The fact that a “journalist” or even a “commentator” (as Cramer correctly named himself) on a supposed business news channel would say “We have reporters who try really hard who were not always told the truth” and bemoan the fact that he doesn’t have subpoena power to force CEOs to tell the truth is ABSURD. Ask yourself this — did Woodward and Bernstein have subpoena power when they reported Watergate? No. They dug for sources, pieced seemingly unrelated pieces of information together, developed facts in a slow and steady way, and in the end brought down the presidency. They didn’t even have the Freedom of Information Act at their dispense (I believe).
    .
    So Cramer saying that “CEOs lied to me” is the problem itself, in the sense that it reflects that CNBC’s reporters (or commentators) were not EXPOSING those lies. It all brings to mind “The Smartest Guys in the Room,” the wonderful documentary about the Enron collapse — of COURSE it was unsustainable, and of COURSE the whole thing was going to fail spectacularly, but the problem was no reporter (or the SEC, or financial analyst) actually bothered to look at all the numbers, accounting, and underlying data to delve to the truth.
    .
    Meanwhile, Stewart does EXACTLY that — he prepped for his interview, researched old clips of Cramer discussing “fomenting” stock rumors (that Cramer in the clip implied or admitted were entirely bogus), and demonstrated that there IS a game here, and that CNBC as a network was NOT doing its job to expose these lies and manipulations. This is the 21st Century — a show on Comedy Central written by a crack group of comedy writers have exposed the fact that CNBC, the Emperor of business news, has no clothes.

  • Chaddogg

    @archstanton68 and shara: I’ll disagree with both of you slightly — in politics, we DO have reporters doing these critical examinations. Yes, sometimes they are denied access to direct interviews with politicians, but then they go to other sources of facts, report them, and expose political lies and machinations. No political reporter would ever be caught dead saying things like Cramer said on the Daily Show, or bemoaning the fact that CEOs had “lied” to him — they would have exposed the lie through careful reporting, either during or after the interview.

  • http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/03/13/re-all-anyone-will-talk-about/ Re: All Anyone Will Talk About… :: Swampland – TIME.com

    [...] Posted by Karen Tumulty | Comments (0) | Permalink | Trackbacks (0) | Email This Here’s what media critic JP has to say about Stewart v. [...]

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    Chaddogg
    .
    Care to give some actual names for the examples of the journalists you describe? I don’t see many of them at all in our national media.

  • plukasiak

    excellent blog entry, JP…. it really belongs in the “dead tree” Time.
    _
    but, of course, Stengel would never allow that, because what you’ve written is as much an indictment of Time itself (and Stengel’s role in it) as it is of CNBC.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    Jake Tapper today is bemoaning “partisan blinders” but it appears to me that only people with are particular agenda are able to muster the courage it takes to even begin to question the status quo.
    .
    The circle of self-congratulation just winds tighter by the day.

  • btmorex

    @Chaddogg: You have a much higher opinion of the political press than I do. Look at the typical “reporting” that goes on: “The White House said x. House republicans said y” and that’s it. Who’s right? No one in the press actually figures it out. No one will ever say so-and-so is wrong (because if they do then they never get to interview so-and-so again).

  • bobcn1

    JP, thank you.

  • mshaughn10

    Stewart is a master, but this task was too easy. In some ways, his outrage on our behalf is justified, but that assumes that any of us should really assume that most of what happens on cable new programs is journalism. It’s not. Mostly, its ratings driven commentary for entertainment. There is only enough journalism thrown in to weakly obscure that fact. We can stomp our feet in anger about it or vote with our remote, rewarding what credible journalism there is with ratings.

  • stuartzechman

    JP:
    .
    Let’s now observe to see if this story is given the context of what Jay Rosen calls “regression toward a phony mean“.
    .
    Rosen explains the phenomenon as such:
    .

    “I’d take the point, but first someone would have to explain to me what ‘regression toward a phony mean’ is.”
    .
    It means journalists associate the middle with truth, when there may be no reason to.
    .
    In his 1990 book, See How They Run, former Washington Post reporter Paul Taylor (once seen as heir to David Broder) explained why regression toward a phony mean is so common in journalism. It answers to a need for what he calls “refuge.” Here is what he said:
    .

    “Sometimes I worry that my squeamishness about making sharp judgments, pro or con, makes me unfit for the slam-bang world of daily journalism. Other times I conclude that it makes me ideally suited for newspapering– certainly for the rigors and conventions of modern ‘objective’ journalism. For I can dispose of my dilemmas by writing stories straight down the middle. I can search for the halfway point between the best and the worst that might be said about someone (or some policy or idea) and write my story in that fair-minded place. By aiming for the golden mean, I probably land near the best approximation of truth more often than if I were guided by any other set of compasses– partisan, ideological, pyschological, whatever… Yes, I am seeking truth. But I’m also seeking refuge. I’m taking a pass on the toughest calls I face.

    .
    Clearly, there can be something extreme about this squeamishness, too. Clearly, the desire for refuge can get out hand. Writing the news so that it lands somewhere near the “halfway point between the best and the worst that might be said about someone” is not a truthtelling impulse at all, but a refuge-seeking one. and it’s possible that this ritual will distort a given story.

    .
    Do you predict that “this ritual” will “distort” this given story, too, JP?

  • honeybearkelly

    Glennzilla nails it.

    Cramer is not unique.

  • Dave

    @btmorex – Isn’t that supposed to be what the press is supposed to do? Report the facts and don’t let opinion, bias, or emotion get in the way? Even so, I’m pretty sure we can tell what many reporters are thinking most of the time :)

  • m0008

    As with most events in the media, those who don’t know anything about the subject thought Stewart “won.” Those who have a clue realize that Stewart was way out of his depth and is lucky that Cramer was too polite to set him straight regarding his amazing ignorance. I speak as a former fan of the Daily Show and someone who started supporting Obama 2 years ago (which is what this is really about) – Stewart should spend days watching CNBC before he speaks about what they do or do not do.

    Cramer may be wrong about individual stocks, but he tells people to do their own homework and teaches them how to do it. He told everyone to get out of the market when the Dow was over 10,000 and he explained the downward pressure being put on by hedge funds pulling out throughout the fall. He also told people to sell into the rally a few weeks ago because the market was going to go down – right before the “worst week” this year.

    But, all of this is get rich quick information to Jon Stewart because we all should “work hard” for his money the way he does. Ironically, Cramer has been advocating bailout of the mortgages/homeowners for months – which is what this whole feud started with (Rick Santelli railing against the bailout of bad mortgages and Robert Gibbs reacting to Santelli’s rant).

  • btmorex

    @Dave: Yes, the press should report facts without opinion, bias, or emotion. That’s not really what this is about though. They also have the duty to verify claims.
    .
    If someone says “the world is flat” in an interview, a reporter shouldn’t *just* write “so-and-so claimed the world is flat”. It’s their duty to follow up on that, do research, and also say “Hundreds of years of scientific experiments prove that the world is actually spherical”.
    .
    Obviously, this is a short contrived example that shouldn’t be controversial. The point is that the press never does this kind of reporting. They never actually try to verify claims.

  • James Poniewozik

    @stuartzechman: I’m not sure, partly because I don’t know what the regression toward the phony mean would be in the instance of Cramer v. Stewart. Would it be to say that Cramer is a little right and Stewart is a little right? That is the general pattern we see in the phenomenon Rosen is talking about, right: the (protective) tendency to conclude the truth must always lie somewhere in the middle? As you know as well as I do, there are plenty of examples of this in reporting history–the classic case of “balancing” global warming deniers vs. most scientists, or the way the argument over the housing market was reported BEFORE it burst, etc.
    .
    In this particular case, I don’t know if that’s what will happen… maybe you’ll see piling on Cramer, because it’s ‘safe’ to do so now (like it became safe to be critical of the White House after Katrina), and because, as I’ve been harping on, if you make it a personality thing that’s all about Cramer, then it’s not all about the larger media.
    .
    But again, not sure what mean-regression would mean in this instance, so that’s just a guess.

  • happycat555

    So we should “talk among ourselves about who “won” the interview”? What? It was pretty clear who won the interview (hint – it wasn’t the bald guy with the cracking voice who kept apologizing).
    .
    And this is a great one too: “The answer seems pretty plain if you watch the channel: it’s for the traders. Period. It’s not just that CNBC doesn’t serve average, buy-and-hold investors.”
    .
    Again – what? I guess all the calls from regular folks who ask Cramer how to invest money (“Booya Jim, here’s a stock – should I pull the trigger? “it’s a BUY BUY BUY!!!” *wacky sound effect*) were faked – clearly Cramer’s show is only aimed at investors. I must have imagined all those people calling for advice.
    .
    These sorts of posts really make me glad that hopefully at some point Time will go under like the rest of printed media, and if not then maybe get reduced to filling all of its pages with garbage like “Why Faith Heals?” or printing endless sponsored “amazing technology” “articles” or maybe putting more fake mirrors on covers to further discredit its “Person of the Year” tradition.
    .
    Keep at it, guys – Stewart’s doing better than you so far. And he isn’t even a journalist.

  • yoshiattack

    m00808: totally agree with your general assessment (haven’t seen the clip). I’m a fan of the Daily Show (unfortunately, cut off from it due to bad internet), but Jon Stewart is frequently reduced to populist attacks that really are unjustified to anyone who knows the facts. Every time he’s had a substantial guest on Iraq, he’s bailed out with the humor schtick when they bring up a reasonable point.
    .
    Still, I do like the Daily Show once in a while.

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    The audience is indeed day traders. But a synonym for day trader is “sucker” and all the CNBC participants know this. They are the casino’s hot babes who sidle up to players at the roulette wheel to keep them playing. The raisson d’ etre of the program is inherently wrong, because it fosters the illusion that you can win at this game. As Cramer makes clear, against his will, the game is rigged against the viewers trading at their computers at home, and he has done his share of the rigging.
    .
    I don’t watch the station (I don’t trade), but I used to read Cramer’s column in the NY Observer. He made it very clear that there was much shadiness going on. This is not a surprise. It’s one reason why it’s stupid to trade–once the information gets out of the concentric circles of insider,Street trader, analyst, broker the price has moved significantly. The other major reason that it’s a sucker’s bet is transaction costs, low as they have become, still eat up your profits.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    yoshia
    .
    What would you consider a “reasonable point” on Iraq?

  • happycat555

    to m0008:
    .
    “Those who have a clue realize that Stewart was way out of his depth and is lucky that Cramer was too polite to set him straight regarding his amazing ignorance.”
    .
    This is a grade-school level argument. It’s like a child saying “hey guys, I can fly and breathe fire!” and when other kids tell him to prove it, he says he doesn’t feel like it. Cramer didn’t hold back out of politeness or whatever other magical quality you may ascribe to him, he simply didn’t have a whole lot to say. I think he went to the show with the intent to just sit there and agree with Stewart, to do a mea culpa and then return to the safety of his show with the knowledge that he safely defused the incident.
    .
    Instead, he was treated to a few clips (never meant to be aired on national TV, I’m sure) that showed him as what he really is – a ruthless trader who doesn’t consider things like spreading rumors about iPhone’s viability to be bad practice. And he didn’t have a whole lot to say. He shut down completely, not a solid answer to any of Stewart’s questions, just apologies and promises to do better.
    .
    My point here is that when you say Cramer can fly and breathe fire, he better step up and prove it. Saying “he didn’t feel like it” is an excuse good enough only for children and feeble-minded.

  • stuartzechman

    Look at the typical “reporting” that goes on: “The White House said x. House republicans said y” and that’s it. Who’s right? No one in the press actually figures it out.
    .
    Isn’t that supposed to be what the press is supposed to do? Report the facts and don’t let opinion, bias, or emotion get in the way??
    .
    Dave:
    .
    No, it’s not.
    .
    There’s a difference between “reporting” and “stenography”. Simply reporting that “Galileo put forward the notion that the earth revolves around the sun, whilst court officials disagreed, citing well established precedents for continued acceptance of the earth’s centrality in the universe.” leaves the reader with a highly distorted impression of that information –even without “opinion, bias, or emotion” there to “get in the way”.

  • yoshiattack

    Awhile ago on the show (before McCain had won the primary), him and Jon were on what must have been their 6th sitdown (don’t know for sure), and Iraq came up. Because Stewart brought it up. So he asked McCain what the whole rationale for going into Iraq was. McCain launches into a full-fledged statement about how Saddam was shuffling his feet with the WMDs before the war, how just about every Western intel agency thought the UN resolutions were being violated, etc…
    .
    In response, Stewart laughs it off and changes the subject. I get that it’s easier to make fun of soft targets than engage in conversation. But Stewart is short of a bona fide journalist because he runs away from stuff like that from time to time.
    .
    I don’t remember any moments about the surge so clearly, but I do pretty much know that because it suited his purposes, Stewart always sniped at Petraus without acknowledging any progress.

  • gysgt213

    Jane reminds us who Cramer really is:
    .
    Anyone not familiar with what happened when the curtain was pulled back from WaMu and their lending practices can catch up here, but CEO Kerry Killinger pulled down $88 million from 2001 to 2007 by churning out loans to the riskiest borrowers with high fees attached. The money quickly went out the door to the bank’s executives. Employees described it as a “sweatshop”: “garbage in, garbage out.”
    .
    At the time, Cuomo had filed a lawsuit against real estate apraisal firm First American, claiming they had inflated their real estate appraisals due to pressure from Washington Mutual. He had emails to prove it. WaMu’s stock prices tumbled. This led Cramer to rail against Cuomo for being a “communist:”
    .
    “[W]itness the fact that right now, the most important man in America for the stock market – the most important man and I mean it negatively is this guy Andrew Cuomo, the New York State Attorney General,” Cramer said. “I’m getting tired of the New York State Attorney General being the most important man in America.”
    .
    Cramer compared Cuomo to his politicized predecessor Eliot Spitzer. “Cuomo’s about confiscation – genuine communist,” Cramer said. “The Chinese are capitalists, we got a communist.”
    .
    Andrew Cuomo did not mislead Jim Cramer. He didn’t lie to him. Cramer had no interest in the facts–he was trying to use a very high profile forum to intimidate Cuomo, and keep him from looking into Washington Mutual. He didn’t “try hard,” and his crime wasn’t a belief that the market would continue to go up–he acted like a thug to actively discourage any investigation that could threaten the perpetuation of a huge ponzi scheme.
    .
    Cramer certainly wasn’t the only one. But his defense, such as it is, attempts to obscure the fact that, like Marty Peretz, he believed his objective was sacrosanct, which justified its advancement by any means.
    .
    Let us all not forget that no matter how sorry we may feel for Cramer he was an active participant in not reporting facts.
    .
    http://firedoglake.com/2009/03/13/sorry-jim-cramer-you-didnt-try/#more-38003

  • stuartzechman

    JP:
    .
    Thank you very much for responding to commentary.
    .
    …maybe you’ll see piling on Cramer, because it’s ‘safe’ to do so now (like it became safe to be critical of the White House after Katrina), and because, as I’ve been harping on, if you make it a personality thing that’s all about Cramer, then it’s not all about the larger media.
    .
    I would bet money on that prediction. It’s too bad there isn’t a site where press corps reaction predictions can be given odds. Then again, it wouldn’t be very exciting to play –it would be like the Academy Award for Best Film going to “Kramer vs Kramer” every year. It’s just not that hard to predict the current press corps.
    .
    …not sure what mean-regression would mean in this instance…
    .
    A quick clarification:
    .

    I can dispose of my dilemmas by writing stories straight down the middle. I can search for the halfway point between the best and the worst that might be said about someone (or some policy or idea) and write my story in that fair-minded place.

    .
    By focusing on the “performance” of the two personalities, instead of the conflict between competing notions of journalism and integrity, an “even-handed” account of the situation –even in which the “winner” is “declared”– will be sure to include some mitigating aspects of the participants’ demeanor and/or character:
    .
    To be fair, Mr. Cramer had in recent weeks advised his audience in somber tones that positions he previously advised them to hold were no longer kept buoyed by a tanking market
    .
    or
    .
    Stewart’s strident, often hostile tone seemed prosecutorial –even mean-spirited– to viewers, many of whom couldn’t help feeling pangs of sympathy for the entrapped, overwhelmed Cramer“)
    .
    come to mind immediately, although I’m sure that professional writers will create even more (predictable) variations on the theme.
    .
    I hope that this clarifies what I meant by predicting an application of “regression to a phony mean”, JP.

  • oathdoover

    JP:

    Great post. So far you are one of the few in the MSM to get at the heart of the Stewart smackdown last night. It really wasn’t about Cramer, but the larger issue of “journalists” allowing themselves to be spun without really bothering to check on the facts. You could have substituted Russert for Cramer last night and the topic, WMD and the result would have been the same.

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    “Much easier, too, to make this story about a feud between two cable-TV stars, declare a winner, and move on. Because then we don’t have to recognize that this song is about us.”
    .
    Thanks JP — I woke up this morning earlier than usual (it’s my birthday so I want to be awake for the whole thing) and had to endure another episode of Morning Joe and their relentless drive to distort the truth and carry water for a failed philosophy, without even giving me what I wanted most, a forced acknowledgement that they are part of the problem.
    .
    Well I did get to see Eugene Robinson call out the “conservative commentariat and overcaffeinated infotainers” trying to use this crisis to derail Obama’s agenda, so that was something. However, they didn’t bother to cover the story.
    .
    Your analysis nails the bigger picture in a medium that is infamous for its inability to see the bigger picture, think long term, and to generally act in an adult like manner. If Stewart’s take was my gift wrapped present, your post is definitely the bow.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    Happy Birthday Dee. Hope you have lots of fun!

  • davethompsonmpls

    A few random thoughts:
    1. I am a small investor, saving for my retirement just like you. I have become a student of the stock market (mostly via mutual funds). I will tell you right now that buy-and-hold does not work. You are better off using your poker skills (raise your bet on a good hand, cut your losses on a bad one). I sell on a 10% drop in a holding. Boy, I wish I had done that during the tech bubble.
    2. Good advice is worth something. You wanna know who was screaming “sell” during the tech bubble? Cramer. It’s how he got his own show. Now, his presentation is idiotic, but when I am looking for ideas, I stop in and listen sometimes. He interviewed the president of SGR last fall, when their stock price was below their available cash on hand. I bought a few hundred shares, made some money, and sold it in January.
    3. Jon Stewart is not just a comedian. His show won two Peabody awards for his election coverage in 2000 and 2004. I found Stewart’s show to be a voice of sanity during the Bush years. He asks the tough questions in a humorous fashion, but he is not in it for the laughs. Cramer never knew what hit him.

  • Dave

    @stuartzechman – What else would there be to report about Galileo? Considering the times, that’s all there was to say (unless, of course, this was being reported long after his proof was widely accepted, but I’m assuming your report is when he was initially making his beliefs known).
    `
    Think of it hypothetically: what if a scientist suddenly came and told us that all skin cancer is caused by moonlight, not sunlight. The headline would probably read, ““Scientist Dave put forward the notion that skin cancer is caused by the moon, not the sun, whilst court officials disagreed, citing well established precedents for continued acceptance of the sun as the cause for skin cancer.” Then, after the scientist proves that skin cancer really is caused by the moon, 100 years later, would we fault the reporter for not declaring Scientist Dave a genius for discovering the scientific breakthrough?
    `
    I’m not saying reporters need to report entirely out of context (which is, I think, what btmorex was lamenting as the current habit of many reporters). I’m saying that reporters need to report, not tell people how to think :)

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    yoshia
    .
    Are you talking about this appearance?
    .
    http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=85762&title=sen.-john-mccain-pt.-1
    .

    http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=85843&title=sen.-john-mccain-pt.-2
    .
    Now you can feel free to point me to the exact point in the video where it happened since we are both watching the same thing here.
    .
    I don’t see much laughing off answers but hey thats me.

  • http://smoothlikeremy.blogspot.com/ sgwhiteinfla

    BTW yoshia
    .
    At the end of the second clip did you notice McCain saying he wasn’t sure the surge would work? Just wondering.

  • http://kopam247.wordpress.com/2009/03/13/brawl-street-stewart-vs-cramer-cnbc/ Brawl Street: Stewart vs. Cramer & CNBC « Journalism 24/7

    [...] BusinessWeek The New York Times Newsday Time [...]

  • jasonkotenko

    Wow… if there is one thing that bears repeating, and could serve as the entire article, it is this:
    .
    “Much easier, too, to make this story about a feud between two cable-TV stars, declare a winner, and move on. Because then we don’t have to recognize that this song is about us.”
    .
    The sad thing is that very few if any main stream reporters have gotten this, and likely no one will come to that conclusion in print (vs. in a blog).
    .
    For shame.

  • amasea

    @btmorex, and the others who complain that journalists aren’t doing enough Woodward & Bernstein-style reportage anymore:
    .
    Want to know why?
    They can’t afford it.
    .
    Not in terms of losing sources, or in terms of losing advertisers, but in terms of literal cash — paychecks. There are only a tiny number of reporting positions out there today that allow reporters the time to do the kind of reporting you’re talking about.
    Most reporters have to turn out a minimum of one story a day, and most have to give their editors two a day. When you have just a few hours to report a story, you are forced by constraints of time and editorial expectation to quickly talk to whatever experts you can (politicians, CEOs, scientists, etc) and balance their statements as well as you can within the story. For most reporters, the luxury of doing their own research is just that — a luxury.
    .
    Until society realizes and rewards the value of having reporters who can take the time to do research, this problem is only going to get worse. People want their news NOW, in quick bites, for free. This is an unsustainable model of journalism and leads to the problem you’ve identified. Unfortunately, I don’t see it getting better any time soon.
    .

  • neokla

    One question – whoever said Cramer was a member of the press? People tend to forget that Cramer’s number one job (and Stewart’s) is to increase ratings and sell advertising. Calling him a journalist is like saying your local radio DJ is in the music business. The reality is they are both in the business of selling advertisements – they are not journalists.

    It has become an American pastime to point the finger at others for our own mistakes and excesses. Rather than admit that a majority of the population got caught up in the greed and materialism of the last bull market, we would rather try to affix blame to a particular person or party.

    Having said that, if you get all your investment advice from Cramer (or any other TV personality) and all your political information from Comedy Central you pretty much deserve your fate. There’s a whole world of information out there, and it would behoove everyone to study as much as possible before making important decisions. I would strongly suggest looking at all sides, particularly those you disagree with. We don’t need any legislation promoting equality on the airwaves, we only need our citizenry to quit acting like sheep and just turn the dial occasionally.

  • neokla

    Oh yeah, this feud only came about because Cramer had the audacity to call out the President he had so ardently supported. Whatever happened to “Dissent is the highest form of patriotism”? Noticed those bumper stickers disappeared after the changing of the guard.
    .
    Ask yourself, “would Stewart have attacked Cramer if Cramer had been disparaging Bush’s policies instead of Obama’s?”
    I think we all know the answer to that one.

  • helee

    To expect reporters to dig deep and trash their sources if they find that’s the right way to go, might be expecting too much from human nature. (IMO, much of this digging and poking and exposing should have been done by the SEC, who are answerable to no private companies. But that’s another story.)

    I loved the Stewart vs. Cramer show, though it’s hard to know why Cramer agreed to come on it.

    But I used to be a reporter at a very small-town daily, when I first moved here. I loved digging and poking and writing up stuff on the bad guys — usually the local Republicans.

    I couldn’t do that now, 25 years later. The bad guys are people I know. Even some local Republicans are people I’ve shared a pew or a Fourth-of-July barbeque or a charity supper with. I would definitely be very hampered, by my own cowardice/human-ness, if I tried to put one of my local friends on the rack and then spread it all out in public.

    Surely it’s the same with “real” reporters. In fact, it’s even harder. If you interview, say, the head of AIG, and then dig around and find out that the head of AIG lied to you, you should publish that. But that means that you will never again be allowed to talk to the head of AIG. All the other reporters — your competition — will be treated to lots of interviews with the head of AIG, but never you again. You can burn someone only once.

    And if you’re part of the White House press corps — well, we’ve all seen how it works. In the early Bush years, no one dared to give the press secretary a hard time, because those press people would be ostracised by the secretary. It’s only when Bush’s power began weakening that the press piled on him.

    So, be a hero and lose your contacts and eventually your job, or write down the middle, soften things to keep access to sources, and continue to have a nice life? Your choice. Remember, Woodward and Bernstein were young, hungry, unmarried, and basically with nothing to lose.

  • btmorex

    The current link from Time’s front page to this post uses the text “Who Won the Jon Stewart- Jim Cramer Smackdown?”, which is hilarious and saddening considering the content of this post.

  • rustyreturns

    What I said back on Scherer’s blog. Ha!
    .
    So when do we get reporters who will simply, “report” the facts, and call to task those people, politicians and otherwise who will not “say what they mean, and mean what they say”?
    .
    Hopefully one reporter out there will see the value in all of this and know its really not a comedy, its life.
    .
    Where are you Edward R Murrow?? I know you are out there!

  • yoshiattack

    SG:
    No, that is not the clip I’m talking about.
    .
    It does exhibit some Stewartism though – jumping around after McCain points out that a secure climate is necessary for democracy to function, to timetables.

  • stuartzechman

    Dave:
    .
    What else would there be to report about Galileo? Considering the times, that’s all there was to say…
    .
    I disagree.
    .
    I’ll try to elucidate:
    .
    Even in our theoretical story on Galileo’s discovery and trial, there’s obviously a whole lot more to report on than the stenographer’s transcript.
    .
    For example, of primary importance to the story would be the distinct methodology employed by Galileo in determining reality, and how it stood in stark contrast to the court’s. A real report would also inform the reader that Galileo’s conclusions were the result of a series of empirical observations over time, and that the basis for the court’s conclusions was a series of proclamations of religious dogma, so that their audience knew the qualitative difference between the these sources. An important qualitative difference would have to involve the judgment that empirical observation combined with the scientific method produces a more accurate understanding of physical reality than dogma.
    .
    Please understand that I’m not claiming that the reporter must advocate Positivism in order to make that judgment, no more than the reporter must renounce Catholicism in order to conclude that Pythagoras’ theorem produces accurate knowledge about triangles.
    .
    If the reader doesn’t know that Galileo’s conclusions are from a fundamentally different set of premises about what constitutes knowledge, and is left uninformed as to the track record of that methodology in terms of accurately comprehending and predicting physical phenomena, then the reporter has truly done a disservice to their audience.
    .
    Not only is there “more to report on” than what the two parties claimed, the most important information to report was omitted at the readers’ expense.
    .
    I’m saying that reporters need to report, not tell people how to think :)
    .
    It is, in fact, the job of reporters to “tell people how to think” about the phenomena that they report, if by “how to think” you mean “what is true or false about situations and events”. It is precisely in judgment with respect to the veracity of competing claims that the true value of reportage is to be found (by news consumers).

  • if6was9jh

    Little late to the party, but I want to address something neokla had to say (2:33PM) which I think gets to the heart of something really wrong with our society that transcends the current debate:

    “One question – whoever said Cramer was a member of the press? People tend to forget that Cramer’s number one job (and Stewart’s) is to increase ratings and sell advertising. Calling him a journalist is like saying your local radio DJ is in the music business. The reality is they are both in the business of selling advertisements – they are not journalists.”- neokla

    The fact is that people can still do their jobs but have some integrity while they do it. Based on this mentality, the ends justify the means. Baseball players can be excused for taking steroids because their number one job is to get hits that win games. The Bush administration can be excused for stepping all over the constitution because their number one job is to protect the American people. Traders and CEOs should be pardoned for wrecking the economy because their number one job is to make money for their clients and their shareholders.

    Kudos to you Jon Stewart. I hope this is a new trend in this country where individuals are held accountable for not only where they are at, but also how they got there.

  • emanlgoldstein

    neokla Says:

    Ask yourself, “would Stewart have attacked Cramer if Cramer had been disparaging Bush’s policies instead of Obama’s?”
    I think we all know the answer to that one.

    Why don’t we stay focused on the real issue here rather than trying to make lame political points. The Stewart show went after CNBC, because their anchor whined and screamed about average homeowners receiveing a bailout in front of a group of stockbrokers. The point the Daily show was making in their criticism was the hypocracy of Santelli’s inital rant. Arguing against a bailout in front of individuals who profit from a financial system that is receiving a bailout on an unimaginable scale.

    Now I know the right wing loves to bury their heads in the sand and whine about the ‘liberal media’. Anyone who makes this argument has no idea of what they are talking about. (i.e. read Noam Chomsky, if you even have any idea of who the man is)…. But the facts are evident. Our ‘corporate’, nowhere near liberal has failed us repeatedly from WMDs to Katrina, to the current financial mess. There were individuals who were predicting a financial collapse of the U.S. system during the bubble. The only trouble was they were on stations like Al Jazeera English, and the BBC. Sadly those stations actually do ‘real’ reporting, which is something our media system is sorely lacking.

    But for indivuals like neokla, I say go ahead and defend CNBC and take the propaganda they feed you. History has already shown what listening to that type of tripe will get you.

  • Dave

    @stuart – After reading your last comment, I think we’re saying the same thing, but you’re working to disagree based off the level of detail to which I failed to take the analogy. A real report would also inform the reader [a bunch of facts relating to the story]. Looking back, yes, I was unclear. My point is, reporters should be reporting facts. By “tell people how to think,” I meant “how to think” to mean “what opinion to have regarding the given facts,” not “what are the given facts.”
    `
    Again, I’m pretty sure we’re saying the same thing. If you’d like to cherry pick another sentence or two to squabble over, I’m more than happy to keep this up :)

  • roscoe46

    Stewart should stick with the comedy and leave any serious reporting to someone else. He is at least moderately good at the comedy.
    The sooner all of us realize our country was founded as, and has been successful because of its capitalist, profit-driven principles, and not as a socialist, government-driven society, the better off we and the country will all be.
    Most Americans have come to think our government owes us something, when in fact it owes us nothing.
    Mr. Cramer was giving advice. We get advice from many different sources on many different topics, and we all CHOOSE which pieces of advice to accept and utilize. It is, after all, all about choices! (Choices and hard work, not sitting back waiting on the government to take care of us!!)

  • kathy

    JP – thanks for this posting. Re: your exchange with Stuart over the mean. This reminds me of Campbell Brown’s commentary about the same point during the campaign. As I recall, her example is that when one candidate says it’s sunny and another says it’s cloudy reporters ought to be able to look out the window and decide whether one is right and the other wrong. That Brown’s commentary attracted so much attention is indicative of how reluctant reporters are to do that.
    .
    I’ve watched CNBC some (not in recent months) and most of the on air people seemed caught up in a kind of gnosticism – a reveling in their “secret knowledge,” which they might be willing to let you in on, and which you were a loser if you didn’t act on. They clearly – and this is true of Cramer, especially, wanted to be lionized for being able to predict the market. That Cramer had presumably made a lot of money probably let him off the hook in his own mind, because he was only helping us, right?
    .
    At the least, CNBC contributed to a culture that was 100% about making money. And if you think market is going to keep going up for ever there’s not much incentive to think about long range policy.

  • stuartzechman

    If you’d like to cherry pick another sentence or two to squabble over, I’m more than happy to keep this up
    .
    That’s kind of antagonistic right there, isn’t it, Dave?
    .
    I meant “how to think” to mean “what opinion to have regarding the given facts,” not “what are the given facts.”
    .
    Glad you cleared that up.
    .
    The thing is, Dave, that distinguishing “what opinion to have regarding the facts” from “what reasonable conclusion to draw from the facts” is a really tough call for the press corps to make all the time in practice –and they’re really bad at it.
    .
    What journalists have been doing –fetishizing their own “objectivity” into an information-distorting pose– hasn’t been terribly effective at transmitting information, establishing their own credibility or selling newspapers, and it’s getting worse by the minute.
    .
    I think that the obsessive focus on excluding “opinion” and only including the most easily verifiable facts from stories is actually bad journalistic practice, albeit the orthodoxy of the moment. As Amanda Michel so aptly states in her piece on pro-am in the Columbia Journalism Review:
    .

    The integration of strands of the pro-am strategy into the journalism mainstream will be bumpy. It will require, among other things, a shift in journalism’s traditional ethical matrix. Transparency and disclosure, rather than neutrality—often tainted if not patently false—must become critical fourth-estate virtues. The pros must commit to figuring out how to harness, cooperate with, and assimilate citizen journalists into the future of their craft. In other words, more professional journalists should take their offline skills—such as interviewing sources—online, and learn to build and manage networks of sources to produce accurate information.

    .
    Jon Stewart, like a lot of us these days, is an amateur journalist.
    .
    He, like a lot of us, doesn’t let the neutrality rituals so important to press corps orthodoxy obstruct genuine acts of journalism.

  • formerlyjames

    While I did enjoy viewing the interview, this is to me the story de jour a bit overdone. I read all of the thread, thanks for the enlightenment to everybody, especially enjoyed your perspective, JP.
    .
    My conclusion? Cramer is just a tiny part of the problem, Stewart don’t get the ribbon for earthshattering journalism now, might have a year ago.
    .
    And whoever it was that said that long term investment don’t work, but following investment shamins day to day, better tune into Warren Buffet, as I think he might take exception.
    .
    On through the fog.

  • Dave

    @stuart – That’s kind of antagonistic right there, isn’t it, Dave? Yeah, sorry about that… I get grouchy when I’m around someone who’s better at using unnecessary big words than I am :) (I really am enjoying the discussion… it’s just amusing – and a little frustrating – that you don’t seem to accept the fact that we’re not actually disagreeing about anything. In fact, putting it like that, I find it very amusing. That or it’s just Friday afternoon of a long week of lots of work and not lots of sleep… oh, wait.)
    `
    Now, I was under the impression that we were discussing what reporters should be doing (reporting facts, accurately and, when necessary, comprehensively). You’re absolutely right about what many are doing right now… it’s very tempting to tell a reporter that his objectivity fetish is far too transparent. I’m not sure how often you cross over into the Tuned In trenches, but James has been advocating transparency and disclosure throughout the election season. In this fascinating new interweb age, everyone’s a journalist, so how can we trust anyone to really be objective, especially considering how hot and bothered folks get over politics?

  • Dave

    …and to think, I generally avoid James’ “real world” discussion posts, but I wanted to stop in and make a funny comment that whoever thought up the Huff Post headline must have been playing to much World of Warcraft.

  • koabd

    “It is, in fact, the job of reporters to ‘tell people how to think’ about the phenomena that they report, if by ‘how to think’ you mean ‘what is true or false about situations and events.’ It is precisely in judgment with respect to the veracity of competing claims that the true value of reportage is to be found (by news consumers).”
    .
    I would actually disagree with the notion that reporters tell you how to think. And I say that not looking through the lense of journalistic theory (which I studied for a time in college), but the reality of how people actually consume the news. For better or worse, people seek out reporters and sources of news based on their own biases — in other words, people actually want to be a part of the choir being preached to (hence the success of Bill O’Reilly, Keith Olbermann, Joe Scarborough, Racheal Maddow, etc.). Sure, some may venture off to sources of information whose perspective they disagree with (see the people loving referred to as “trolls” on left and right leaning sites) — but that’s just to look down their noses at the people they view as stupid or perpetually wrong.
    .
    So, in that regard, I guess you could categorize me as a relativist. And in so thinking, I think the best a journalist can hope to do is provide the best accounting of the facts possible. He has no ability to tell the reader how to think — the reader has his mind made up already based on his view of the source of information; he’s just looking for confirmation of preconceived notions.

  • stuartzechman

    Dave:
    .
    Yeah, sorry about that…I really am enjoying the discussion…
    .
    OK, dude. 18 and over, entertainment purposes only, etc. I’m with you.
    .
    …you don’t seem to accept the fact that we’re not actually disagreeing about anything…
    .
    Well…we are, kind of. Sort of. A tiny bit.
    .
    I’m really not desperate for an argument, I’m just trying to make the point absolutely crystalline, and here it is:
    .
    Journalistic objectivity with respect to national, partisan or ideological sympathies is impossible, and attempts at it are futile and counterproductive. There is a difference between reporting and arguing, but it doesn’t have to do with relinquishing one’s perspective.
    .
    It’s one thing to limit the scope of reporting so as not to resemble an adversarial closing argument at a trial, in which facts or circumstances unhelpful to a case are suppressed, what is minimal and yet helps the case is maximized, and every attempt is made to convince, up to and including psychological manipulation, misleading oratory and actual untruths.
    .
    That’s the part where you and I agree.
    .
    In this fascinating new interweb age, everyone’s a journalist, so how can we trust anyone to really be objective, especially considering how hot and bothered folks get over politics?
    .
    It’s quite another thing to demand that journalists include rituals that demonstrate that they’re not making cases –especially “over politics”– or else we’ll raise the objection “how can we trust anyone to really be objective“.
    .
    By making an issue out of news consumers trusting that their news sources “really be objective”, instead of an issue out of demanding that news sources really be transparent in terms of their premises, you’re mis-identifying the prime problem with establishment journalism, I believe.
    .
    That’s the part where we disagree, I think.
    .
    I could be wrong, however.
    .
    Thanks for the discussion, Dave.

  • http://nmcshah.wordpress.com/2009/03/13/john-stewart-battles-business-media-service-cnbc/ Jon Stewart battles business media service CNBC « Person of the Day

    [...] “The question, as Stewart came at over and over, was: What did CNBC know and when did it know it? Or, rather: if people like Cramer knew there were shenanigans going on on Wall Street—as shown by clips from his excruciating online video cynically describing manipulations that he said he’d never talk about on TV—then why not call them out?” –Time Magazine blogger James Poniewozik, read more of this great analysis [...]

  • http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/2009/03/13/jim-cramer-jon-stewart-cnbc-and-the-problem-with-doing-17-hours-of-live-tv-a-day/ Jim Cramer, Jon Stewart, CNBC and the problem with doing 17 hours of live TV a day :: The Curious Capitalist – TIME.com

    [...] live TV a day takes flaws inherent in the way we do journalism here in the U.S. (for more on that, see Poniewozik’s take) and magnifies them [...]

  • formerlyjames

    sz, I least of all would challenge you, but…don’t we all have better sense than to trust journalists left, right, centrists, wherever and the ability to translate the message? That seems to be the basis of the Stewart/Cramer interview. Are you underestimating the ability of the audience? If you are, they deserve what they buy into.

  • formerlyjames

    Correction…that should be “if you are NOT”.

  • stuartzechman

    formerlyjames:
    .
    I least of all would challenge you…
    .
    …For fear of being bored to death by my response?
    .
    …don’t we all have better sense than to trust journalists…
    .
    Of course we should not trust journalists, I completely agree.
    .
    That’s why they should stop pretending to be what they are not.
    .
    We wouldn’t even be having this discussion, if CNBC had replaced the whole “In Cramer We Trust” promo with “The following is a paid announcement for Jim Cramer’s Mad Money, the information contained is the responsibility…“.
    .
    Jon Stewart admits that his show is entertainment/comedy; Wolf Blitzer and David Gregory, Fred Hiatt and Bill Keller won’t admit the same.

  • djm6294

    Thank you to the comic who has reminded us all just how serious the crisis in Journalism has become as our Reporters have become Promoters.
    .
    In promoting the game, Sports reporters at ESPN let steroid using and doping go with out comment for years and kids lost their role models.
    .
    In promoting the markets, Financial reporters didn’t report on the 35:1 derivatives markets in a way the public could understand the risk and people lost their life savings.
    .
    In promoting the administration policies in Iraq, News reporters at the New York Times didn’t properly question “Senior Administration Sources” and brave young Americans lost their lives.
    .
    To all of you in “J” school today, always remember and apply this principal to all of our institutions:
    .
    “Paramount among the responsibility of a free press is the duty to prevent any part of the government from deceiving the people and sending them off to distant lands to die of foreign fevers and foriegn shot and shell” – Justice Hugo Black

  • feebea

    CNBC has been a cheerleader for right wing politics for the past decade but since the election they have been nothing but nasty political theater. They SCREAM and SCREAM at the mention of limiting pay for executives but they speak with utter disgust when they talk about auto workers or people defaulting on their mortgages because they lost their jobs. I feel sorry for Steve Lieseman, one of the few real journalists on the network, because he’s being treated hideously by the people on his own network for not being a right-wing cheerleader. Larry Kudlow is the worst of the bunch but several of the women are competing for being the nastiest human being on TV. You can tell who they are because they all have smirks on their faces.

    I recently switched to Bloomberg. They allow their guests to speak without screaming interruptions. People should just stop being guests on CNBC. No one lets them speak anyway.

    I think that Stewart is missing the point, especially by going after Cramer. The entire network has made a choice to go for ratings by appealing to the angry right that wants to blame the economy on Obama. They have lost credibility and relevance.

  • feebea

    Note to Larry Kudlow. There is class warfare and you definitely lost this battle. Do you have the courage to stand up to Stewart? I doubt it. Good for Cramer for giving it a try.

  • beargulch

    Jon Stewart was only doing what Cramer is charged to do: ferret out the truth. I doubt that Cramer will be allowed by his masters to change how he reports. Honestly, I’m pretty shocked he decided or was allowed to appear on the show. Did he expect another outcome? It seemed like he came there to eat humble pie, and was nervous doing so.

  • jeffroski

    Let’s take journalistic objectivity to another level here. Everyone seems to forget that CNBC is actually owned by a multinational conglomerate that is one of the largest lenders in the world- General Electric. GE used to use this financing machine to help its customers finance big ticket items such as turbines and locomotives. However, since the 1990′s- about the same time CNBC took off- this financing arm has morphed into the biggest driver of earnings for General Electric. Do not tell me that there is not a perverse incentive to use the news network to support the interest of the parent company.

    Case in point, it should be noted that a few days ago, GE’s debt was about to be downgraded below a coveted AAA status. The day before the AAA rating change was about to hit the street, GE’s CFO had carte blanch time on CNBC to “help” assure the public that GE was sound. The same day Bloomberg was covering the GM story and barely mentioned the GE news.

    The root of this objectivity problem lies not with newscasters on CNBC, but with its ownership structure. CNBC/NBC is a bully pulpit for GE, much like Fox News is bully pulpit for Rupert Murdock. Objectivity CAN NOT be inherent to these types of ownership structure and to be honest these networks really are “commentary posing as news” propaganda machines. Traditional media networks such as this magazine’s parent Time Warner and Disney’s ABC seem to be much more objective.

  • whackywaco

    Let’s recap this episode. These two men work for NBC. They both go at each other remotely to build up hype before agreeing to appear together. They then stage a well-scripted skit. Nice way for NBC to try to raise it lowly television ratings.

  • midoriharry

    I enjoyed every moment but why does Mr Stewart insist on recommending awful movies such as Snakes on a #$&&#$” Plane ? I blew 10 bucks on that puppy .

  • maxpower1013

    Wow, Of all the news articles and blogs, this has to be the best one I’ve read about the interview between Stewart and Cramer. Well done

  • http://charliekennedy.wordpress.com charliekennedy

    cramer’s going the way of tucker…. slow disappearance.

  • gysgt213

    Do you know who Patrick Byrne is? A lot who post here probably do. In case you don’t though, he is CEO and founder of Overstock.com. But, he has also in recent years became a reporter. An investigative reporter. Patrick blogs, reports, provides analysis and financial industry insight at deepcapture.com.
    .
    I first came across Patrick’s blog at deepcapture while doing some background on Jim Cramer this past week. If you are under the impression that you have glimsped the seedy side of the finanical world of CEOs and the reporters that cover both, watching the Cramer trainwreck this past week, a visit to deepcapture will dispel that myth/notion pretty quickly. It did for me.
    .
    What impressed me most about Patrick is his level of transparency. Patrick shares emails between himself and other reporters and news professionals that you will have to read for yourself to truly believe.
    .
    I have never seen his level of openness from a reporter let alone from the CEO of a major online company. What also impressed me was the feeling I got that Patrick skipped completely the class on “how reporters and the subjects they cover should work together to ensure the rubes are truly uninformed.” He lays bare the totally inappropriate relationships that exists between way too many reporters and players in the finanical world.
    .
    Joining Patrick at deepcapture are Mark Mitchell and Judd Bagley.
    .
    Of course all the above means that Patrick’s has his detractors and they are of course the usual suspects. Those interested in the status quo. A public that has no clue what is really going on.
    .
    Before you visit Patrick at deepcapture you can jump over to Allan Young’s Incoherence for a little more background and watch snippets of previous interviews Patrick gave to almost all the finanical networks warning of the imploding of the market. I think the first one is dated 2005.
    .
    Patrick Byrne, CEO of Overstock.com (OSTK), was one of the lone voices sounding caution while the market was steadily marching upward to record levels. In good times when everyone in the market is making money, few will listen to the radical iconoclast in the corner warning of an impending end to the party. Contrarians are often seen as party poopers. The financial press regularly ridiculed Byrne for his passionate crusade against naked short selling. Many perceived his actions as a desperate attempt to save his own company from short sellers. Some smug journalists included his name on lists of the worst chief executive officers of 2006 and 2007 – judging him not on the performance of his company but for his vocal admonitions. Now, a year later and after a series of momentous market upheavals, it appears that Byrne is vindicated.”
    .
    http://allantyoung.com/2008/09/22/patrick-byrne-vindicated/
    .
    http://www.deepcapture.com/

  • mrpoed

    Used to really enjoy The Dailey show – but its too one sided. Ironic
    for a host who claims to despise partisan rhetoric disguised as news.
    His show has evolved into a pure left wing editorial show disguised as
    a comedy program. I Thought Jim Cramer did the only thing he could do being a guest on Stewart’s show. He just let Jon Stewart get on his soap box and launch into a pre-designed editorial. It’s so easy to take shots at everyone else and then duck behind “it’s just a comedy program” wall. Jon Stewart wants everyone else in the world to take responsibilty while he claims immunity.
    At the end of a hard day- it used to be nice to
    tune into a show that saw the absurdity of it all . Now Stewart’s ego has
    taken control and he is just as absurd as the people he
    mocks. Narrow minded , self centered people – be they Democrats ,
    Republicans, Communists or comedians are a real bummer.

  • moomstex

    Thank YOU for elevating the conversation ABOUT the conversation. The review in today’s NYT was “cute” but wrong-headed. Like so many commentators.

  • rpmcestmoi

    Thinking of proposing a Cancer show to replace Cramer’s making money fun show is cancelled and he is selling eversharp knives on the sidewalk in front of Printemps on Haussman. I will make cancer entertaining.

    This is merde up to the neck. Television is less that earlier described, as a vast wasteland. It is a land filled of waste product of the human sphincter.

    Cramer is an amoral person and the folks who pay his check are anti-moral. Humans are so degraded it is hard to talk about them until you spy the few good and decent leaders and the mass of musicians, writers, teachers who somehow go on despite all of the unconscionable behavior of the majority.

  • edwardgnigma

    “They allow their guests to speak without screaming interruptions. People should just stop being guests on CNBC. No one lets them speak anyway.”

    I would like to point out that Jon Stewart did the exact same thing to Cramer in the interview. Every time Cramer went to make a point Jon would cut in or go to a video.

  • http://acbradio.net/2009/03/20/get-ready-get-set-outrage-on-the-media-friday-20-march-2009-2.html Get Ready, Get Set … Outrage! (On The Media: Friday, 20 March 2009) at All Channels Broadcast Radio

    [...] revelation. Meanwhile, in the wake of the Jim Cramer-John Stewart outrage showdown, CNBC came under more fire for its brand of financial coverage. The New York Times’ Jim Rutenberg says there’s something [...]

  • http://americanglob.com/2011/05/17/jon-stewart-accuses-fox-news-of-selective-outrage-neglects-to-mention-left-wing-bias-of-comedy-central/ Jon Stewart Accuses FOX News Of Selective Outrage, Neglects To Mention Left Wing Bias Of Comedy Central » American Glob

    [...] To quote Mr. Stewart…. This isn’t a fucking game. [...]

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