Lostwatch: 316

Before you read this post, stop thinking how ridiculous it is, start asking yourself whether or not you believe it’s going to work and watch last night’s Lost.

John Cloud here. My editors and I have beaten James to a Ben-worthy pulp, broken his arm and smuggled him off on an Ajira flight to Florida. This LostWatch is all mine, brotha, and as Mrs. Hawking said toward the beginning of tonight’s episode, 316, “Let’s pay attention, yes?”

That’s because once again, Damon and Carlton have given us one reveal after another—my personal favorite being the return of Frank Lapidus (who just does not look right clean-shaven) as our pilot back to the island.

But I get ahead of myself. From the first screen shot of this episode, the writers seemed to telegraph that it was going to be a crucial one, since that first shot replicates the first one of the entire series, when Jack opens his eyes in the jungle after having crashed. “We have to go baaaacckk!” OK, they’re finally back, and we get to retire that overused line forever.

Fionnula Flanagan is a wonderful actress, and she certainly has the best name in show business since Fatty Arbuckle, but I found Hawking’s description of the electromagnetic gobbledygook about how to find the island to be a bit forced. The writers even put a line into her mouth—“I apologize if this is confusing”—that seems directed at every non-fan who has had the misfortune of stumbling onto the series this year. My two cents: Apology accepted. Let’s push on.

What’s most interesting is Hawking’s declaration that the island is always moving. “Why do you think you were never rescued,” she asks Jack, who is nonplussed. (Poor, gorgeous Matthew Fox has had to look confused so many times this season that I actually felt some pity for the man tonight. His performances are more effective when he gets to swagger and threaten to kill.)

Once again Henry Ian Cusick proves that he is one of the series’ most talented actors—even with a single line: “You say the island’s not done with me?” he asks Hawking. “Well, I’m done with the island.”

It seems clear that we will learn why Locke hanged himself next week, so I won’t delve into that here except to say he wrote a rather tepid suicide note. I guess Locke has always had trouble asserting himself, though—he is a guy who had to be thrown from a window by his own father in order to realize his life wasn’t going in the right direction.

Meeting Jack’s grandfather was a nice surprise, and the way that reveal unfolded was classic Lost—just a bit at a time. The writing of the grandfather character was deft; he seems a bit dotty even as he is a bit brilliant.

The story seemed rushed at the end, the writers pushing off the explanations of how exactly how Kate, Sayid, and Hurley end up on the plane. But for that I’m grateful. Damon and Carlton had said fans would strangle them if they spend the entire season getting the O6 back to the island, so rushing them there and then filling in with flashbacks seems the exact right move.

Department of Favorite Lines:

Jack: And the other people on this plane, what’s going to happen to them?
Ben: Who cares?

Department of Favorite Lines, Part II:

Jack: Wherever you are, John, you must be laughing your ass off that I’m actually doing this.

Department of Favorite Lines, Part III:

Lapidus: Wait a second. We’re not going to Guam, are we?

And finally, in tribute to poor, bloody James, whom we stuffed into an Ajira forward-cabin locker somewhere over Boynton Beach, a hail of bullets:

* What in God’s name happened to Aaron? This must be a far more complicated tale than Agostini & Norton taking the boy, but what is it?

* Mrs. Hawking seems to suggest the island is moving not only through time with the flashes but—constantly, even before the flashes began—through space, which would explain why no one could rescue those on 815. But how could that be? Wouldn’t it end up hitting some land mass eventually?

* Mrs. Hawking was a lot less creepy than in previous appearances. Saddled with all that exposition to start the episode, she didn’t have much time to milk her trademark steely glances, but she also carried herself like a school administrator—shuffling papers, handing out assignments: “Let’s pay attention, yes?” Even the mention of Daniel Faraday failed to move her off her syllabus.  Kudos to Ben for calling it out on the plane: “You tell me Jack—you’re the one who got to stay after school with Ms. Hawking.”

* If you didn’t catch the equations on Mrs. Hawking’s time interval blackboard, don’t worry. Those are for her AP class.

* The date on the army photo of the island 9/23/54 – U.S. ARMY – OP 264 – TOP SECRET – EYES ONLY must have some meaning, as must the involvement of the U.S. Army. But except for the fact that Flight 815 went down almost exactly 50 years to the day after the photo—on 9/22/04—I’m at a loss here.

* Can anyone think of a television character who has endured as much routine physical brutality as Benjamin Linus? (Jack Bauer doesn’t count; he left the realm of character several seasons ago.) Between the torture, the tumor and the run of the mill ass-kickings he receives from anyone who breaks free of his reign of terror, it’s a good thing the clock is running out on the series. Otherwise Ben might end being played by Mickey Rourke.

* And how did he get bloodied this time? My guess is that Ben has a lot to do with the presence of Hurley and Sayid on Flight 316, and he may have needed to take some pain to get his way.

* Caeser, the passenger Hurley tells to buckle up, is played by Saïd Taghmaoui. If he looks familiar, you may remember him from his brief but impressive role in Three Kings, as… an IRAQI TORTURE SPECIALIST!

* What does it mean that Jin is with the Dharma Initiative, and is it possible he can unlock the secret of how that van stays sparkling clean in the sea air?

Related Topics: Lost, lost
  • Latest on Entertainment

    Angeline Herron / ABC

    The Bachelorette Watch: The Muppets Make a Move on Emily

    The Muppets stop by The Bachelorette so Kermit can make a play for Emily Maynard’s heart. Or something.

    Adele Crosses Huge MilestoneHuffington Post

    Loic Venance / AFP / Getty Images

    Jackie Chan Has (Not) Made His Last Action Film

    Jackie Chan reminds us that English is his second language. And despite rumors, no, he isn’t retiring from action movies, thank you.

  • Matt

    Before I go to sleep and have more to say at work tomorrow, I think that Ben’s “promise to a friend” was what he told Widmore – that he’d kill Penny – and that he sustained injuries trying to do so. aka Desmond kicked his butt.

  • thislittlepiggygoes

    wouldnt that army top secret be the jughead h-bomb? since ellie from the islands is likely farradays mother, she certainly would have taken an interest in the bomb project when returning to the real world. i always wondered how the bomb ended up on the island if the island was unmoored in space. was the us targeting the island for their tests or did the bombs pilots or seamen (not sure how the bomb got there) just stumble into one of the windows and get stranded there.

    also it seems likely that kate gave aaron to claires mom who was conveniently in los angeles at the time.

  • dwhitcomb

    I’m guessing Hurley was told to get on the flight by Charlie. Hence, the guitar. Sayid being escorted by what amounts to a foreign version of a US Marshall means Ben probably turned him in for someone he killed during his time working to get the economist. Both were fun nods to the original crash of Oceanic Airlines.
    -
    I wonder if the flash they experienced just means that they suddenly disappeared from the plane a la Stephen King’s The Langoliers. I hope they have a good co-pilot.
    -
    I’m extremely interested to find out Caesar’s purpose for wanting to get to the island. I’m going to assume he works for Ben because I think Ben would have known if he worked for Widmore.
    -
    Did Ben just innocently go to the bathroom before the flash/crash or did he have different motives? Also, I wouldn’t be surprised if Ben was able to seriously injure Penny or little Charlie before Desmond beat him up. Desmond needs a reason to return to the island and my guess is he’ll tell Widmore about the Lamp Post and together they’ll return to the island in time for season six.
    -
    I’m guessing the plane did crash. Hence Jin went out into the jungle searching for something. I love the fact that part of the story will take place in Dharma times.They have set up so much Dharma backstory that it will be great to be able to experience the history through the character’s eyes.
    -
    When Sawyer, Locke, & company stole the boat it had Ajira Airways bottles on it and it was set in a time after the beach camp had been built. So did the rest of the plane’s passengers end up on the island circa 2007? Did the island merely transport the 06 back to Dharma days in order to rescue their friends? Is that why Daniel Faraday is mining with Dharma, he needs to find a way to transport all of them back to the present? I’m thinking season 6 will reunite everyone in present day for the final Ben vs Widmore showdown and payoff as to why this group of people was brought to the island.

  • http://survivingtheworld.wordpress.com danteshepherd

    A bit of information to everyone -

    The comic book Hurley was reading (in a foreign language, of course, a tip to the comic book that Walt used to read) was Y: The Last Man, a series about how male of every species on Earth dies except for one man and his pet monkey. That particular collection that Hurley was reading was about the attempt by two male astronauts to return back to earth.

    It’s probably more of a nod to one of the LOST writers, Brian K Vaughan, who wrote the series, as opposed to a clue to the LOST story, but hey, who knows?
    —————
    And the best line on the show tonight wasn’t any of those listed. It was as follows, when Jack couldn’t believe Ben was reading on the plane:
    Jack: How can you read?
    Ben: My mom taught me.

  • sulliclm

    As much as I hope Ben got bloodied trying to get Sayid and Hurley on board. I agree with dwhitcomb’s theories about how they got on board. I have a terrible feeling in the pit of my stomach that Penny is dead, and that’s why Desmond will have to return to the Island…to kill Ben.

    Also hands down best line in the episode, perhaps best line in a few episodes was “How can you read? My mom taught me.”

  • sulliclm

    Ok so I just realized that Ben’s hilarious line there is actually pretty loaded. Because, ahem his Mom died in childbirth!? So either it was just an ironic line to use, or, did he really learn to read in the jungle with the Others and his ghost mommy?

  • Dave

    (Nice write-up, Mr. Cloud! The only points I’ll dock you is not capitalizing the ‘I’ in ‘Island.’)
    `
    @sulliclm – I sure hope Ben could read before he was 10 :)
    `
    Though the question is, was his ghost mommy teaching him to read while he was living stateside, or was it just a funny line? After far too much thought, I’m leaning towards it’s just a funny line.
    `
    My favorite line of the episode was Ms. Hawking’s line after Ben tells Jack he didn’t know about the Lamp Post. Jack: “Is he telling the truth?” Hawking: (Chuckling) “Probably not.”
    `
    The Lamp Post: simple nod to CS Lewis or more elaborate analogy? (The Lamp Post was made shortly after the creation of Narnia and was the first thing the Pevensies saw as they passed into Narnia for the first times.)
    `
    Lots and lots of details… I look forward to the Lostpedia contributors picking over every detail of the Lamp Post room, along with Ms. Hawking’s study.
    `
    It was nice to have an episode where I didn’t cringe after half of Jack’s dialog, though that was balanced by even more cringing after most (all?) of Kate’s lines. I’m trying not to rant about Kate, but give me a break. For the last 3 years, you’ve been stubbornly holding onto Aaron as your son, and now you show up, asking to go back to the Island without him, and you tell Jack never to ask you about him again? There had better be an absolutely phenomenal reason for this. Because it sure seemed like Kate was running away. Again.
    `
    Ok, there was too much awesome in that episode for me to get hung up on Kate. I agree that Jack’s grandfather was very well done. I was half expecting him to start talking about the Island :)
    `
    Did it seem like Locke had more stubble than in the end of Season 4?

  • natego

    Here are some mysteries to chew on..

    - Why does Kate change her mind? Seems Aaron was obviously taken from her..

    - Who beat up Ben?

    - How did they end up on the island? Seems like they simply entered the island’s bubble and time transported.. BUT, if thats the case, why were they not transported when they were on the copter???

    - What happened to the plane and the rest of the passengers? Why is the other man (across from Hurley that gave Jack condolences) important??

    - How did Hurley get free? Can we presume Sayid confessed? If so, why is he extradited to GUAM????

    - Who was the “brilliant man” that built the Pendulum at the Lamp Post????

    - What is in Hurley’s Guitar case??? Food?

    - Which passenger got the Ajira water bottle to the island???

    - obviously, where is Ben and Sun and Sayid now?

  • natego

    Also, I LOVE how they faked out the theorists that thought that the Pilot episode was actually showing Jack waking up on the island after returning to the island from the future. They totally screwed with them..hahah.

    Also, We can put to rest any theories that involve the “White Tennis Shoes” Hanging from the tree in the Pilot episode.

  • profdante

    So I didn’t love this episode — it seemed to me like it was mostly about getting them back to the island but refused to tell us anything about how half of the O6 got on the plane. Lost is at its most infuriating when it is a blatant tease like that — plus there was a reappearance of the dreaded no-one-asks-or-answers-questions sickness. But, there were a couple of good moments — like the unexpected return of Lapidus who had the IMO best line: We’re not going to Guam, are we? Brilliant delivery! I agree that it seemed like the O6 were caught in a time bubble. My bet is that Sun, Sayid and possibly the other newcomers ended up in the future time with the beach camp and the outriggers etc. Poor Sun and Jin, still separated.

  • kyyellowdog

    I don’t think Kate gave Aaron up – that’s too much of a surrender for her ego. I think she decided she wanted to go back to the island, but remembered Claire’s warning/threat – “Don’t you dare bring him back!” She stashed Aaron somewhere she could easily retrieve him – something to do with the secret favor she did for Sawyer maybe?

    Locke definitely has more stubble – I really expected him to open his eyes this time.

    Where are Rose and Bernard? I still think they end up as “Adam and Eve,” but before that, they’ll come rushing in to make a surprise rescue, like Hurley did with the van on the beach.

    Am I the only one who thinks Richard Alpert is Locke’s father?

  • natego

    Actually, just got a theory on Ceasar. My possibility is Sayid convinced him to come along in an effort to recreate as best as possible the conditions of the original flight. Sayid plays the part of Kate (escorted convict), and Ceasar plays the part of Sayid (Iraqi Torture Specialist)

  • Tom Shaw

    “I made a promise to an old friend”…. to kill his daughter. That Ben, such a charmer!
    -
    What really wows me about this episode is that the show could go back to flashbacks again, and they’d work: Not only do we have the existing O6 mysteries, but the new mysteries of Hurley knowing the plane intercept, Sayid’s “capture”, Kate dropping Aaron off with Sawyer’s kid, Ben’s (unsuccessful?) attempt on Penny’s life…
    and there’s the entire DI era three years to catch up on.
    -
    Yes, roughly three years. Remember that, for Sawyer & Co., it was only a couple days since the end of Season 4, but three years for the O6 crew. I’ll bet that the Ajira “intersect” (not really a crash) got their two timelines put back together – it’s been three years since Locke fixed the wheel, and Sawyer & Co. landed in the DI era.
    -
    So who knows what all happened since then. Well, Jin now speaks perfect English, so Daniel Dae Kim should be happy at least. Juliet & Sawyer could have married DI era people – hell, they could each/together be the parents of various 2004 characters! For that matter, Rose & Bernard could have a kid or two themselves.
    -
    Actually, chew on this: last week I said Charlotte’s dad was American and did not die in The Purge. What if it’s not Ben, but Sawyer?
    -
    And our consensus is that Hawking’s “They will do… for now does indeed suggest that she was behind (nearly) everything in our new mysteries, and that she can get done in 36 hours what Ben/Jack/Locke couldn’t in three years (and the power that implies), yes?
    -
    I suspect that we will spend the rest of the season (after Bentham’s death next week) in the DI era, until the Wheel is unearthed and our Islanders “snap back” into 2008 – and a motley crew of people waiting for them: The Others, possibly the rest of Ajira 316, Widmore, etc.
    -
    And I have to say, that the plane scene was really well done, in that we had simultaneous similarities and dissimilarities – yes, everyone was sitting apart, Hurley was reading a Spanish-language comic book, a fugitive in chains, and a drug addict, but this time around, they were sitting apart by choice, Hurley was reading a comic by a Lost writer, the drug addict was Jack and the fugitive was Sayid. (I take it mysterious middle eastern guy is the new Libby – the mole working for Widmore?)

  • culbert404

    Last night’s episode was titled 316, right? I think this was a direct reference to John 3:16.

    “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

    1. Locke gave his life so that others would live.
    2. Tons of Father/Son themes (Locke and his dad, Jack and his dad, etc)
    3. Locke’s letter to Jack…I wish you would have believed.
    4. Ben and Jack’s conversation about Thomas and Jesus.

  • natego

    Re: Kate/Aaron… did it not look as though Kate had been crying when she showed up at Jack’s place? Actually she seemed to look like she had been crying through most of this episode… my guess is that she eventually got cornered by Ben with regards to the DNA testing and Ben convinced her to give him away.

    Also, Kate has “I can’t let Jack go by himself” syndrome and has had this since Season 1, so that is another possibility as to why she decides to come..she’s worried about Jack/doesn’t want to lose him.

  • emily26

    okay very first time poster…long time reader! in fact, this blog is how and why i started my addiction to lost!

    i can’t help but agree with dave that i totally think there was more stubble on Locke!

    also, as for ben’s bloody phone call. he seemed to be located at a marina hopefully not where desmond, penny and charlie are docked ;) ??

    and lastly, doc jensen over at ew.com mention something interesting. way back at the hydra they were building a landing strip! might have come in handy last night.

    thanks for getting me hooked guys!!

  • Dave

    @natego – Or Kate wants to get back to Sawyer :)
    `
    @emily26 – Great catch on the landing strip. I had totally forgotten about that. I’m glad I’m not the only one who noticed the stubble, though the Lostpedia discussion has written it off to hair growing after someone dies (though a little fact-checking online reveals that it’s the skin receding, not the hair growing, and it didn’t look like Locke’s face was drying out and decomposing quite yet).
    `
    I was thinking that Ben’s call was too obvious that he went after Penny, but maybe it’s not. I suspect that Widmore sent people to protect Penny. Maybe this means that Ben won’t go after her any more. Or he’ll try to kill her when she shows up on the Island with Desmond.
    `
    Or maybe he really did kill Penny, and Desmond has to go back to the Island to kill Ben.
    `
    (And yes, I love Penny’s character too, but sometimes characters need to die)

  • natego

    @Dave Oh, I see.. she was fantasizing that Jack was Sawyer in Jack’s bed..hahah

  • Dave

    Not necessarily… she’s always been attracted to Jack, but I think she’ll ultimately end up with Sawyer, and that’s her primary reason for going back. She just doesn’t want to admit it to herself, hence sleeping with Jack.
    `
    I’m seeing a lot of disappointment across the interwebs over this episode, but I’m not sure where exactly it’s coming from. Maybe I’ve already given up on any O6-centric episodes (though I think this is the best O6 episode we’ve seen yet), or maybe I just expect them to go back in future episodes and tell us why everyone else was there. The other O6 backstories of how they got on the plane are obviously too deep to put time into this episode. They could have rushed through them all, and we’d be talking about how cheap the episode felt.

  • Matt

    Now that I’ve had some time to process this episode, I think I agree that it was a little disappointing. Maybe it’s because I had higher expectations of a Darlton-written episode, or maybe it’s because I’ve forgotten what an episode that raises “non-mythology” questions is like (seriously, it’s been, like, forever since we had one of those).
    .
    However, I do agree with Tom that it’ll be cool to have flashbacks again – and I hope there are – instead of the characters just answering these questions in exposition.
    .
    I have issues with the Desmond/Hawking interaction. I understood “Flashes Before Your Eyes” to be Des’ attempt to change the past, with Hawking setting him straight. As in, the past had already happened with him not buying the ring, but the second time around, he tries to do it differently. So did I interpret that whole episode incorrectly?… I’m missing something.
    .
    I hope there’s more with Granddad Shephard. Seems a real waste of a character to serve only as the vehicle for getting Christian’s shoes.

  • Dave

    Another little detail: if Hurley is really back in Dharma times, that increases the probability that it’s his voice reading the Numbers :)

  • tactedresser

    It seems too obvious Ben killed Penny. I’m sure Desmond would have tried to do a lot more than bloody and break Ben’s arm. And if it is the case Desmond caused Ben’s injury, why would Ben, a born survivor, decide to leave Desmond alive to come after him. Moreover, because Ben called from a marina, viewers are led to believe that Desmond and Penny traveled all the way from England to LA by boat.

    In regards to the Aijia airlines, I wonder if the survivors from the plane crash were the ones shooting at Faraday et al a couple episodes back.

  • natego

    I don’t doubt that there is a good chance she ends up with Sawyer in the end, but I don’t think thats her motivation right now for going back. I think it is more Ben/Aaron/Jack related at the moment.. but i could def be wrong..

  • Chaddogg

    A couple interesting notes on who the Oceanic 6 might have “represented” while on the plane:
    .
    Locke — the proxy for Christian Shephard.
    .
    Sun — she has Jin’s ring with her. Is she Rose?
    .
    Hurley — he’s got the comic book and the guitar. Shades of Charlie and/or Walt?
    .
    Sayid — escorted by some type of government agent (although why they are going to Guam is anyone’s guess). Is he Kate? (And is the woman the stand-in for the marshall?)
    .
    Kate — on the plane in order to escape raising Aaron. Is she Claire (who was going to LA while pregnant to give Aaron up for adoption)?
    .
    Which leaves a couple wildcards: Ben, Jack, Lapidus, and the dude from Three Kings.
    .
    Jack — he could just be himself. But he’s also a recent drug addict/alcoholic. Maybe some Charlie there too?
    .
    Ben — a mand of faith that was pretty beaten up/crippled (at least in his arm) when he got on the flight. A stand-in for Locke, or, maybe, Sawyer (Ben is a pretty big con-man after all).
    .
    Lapidus — the obvious choice is that he’s just the pilot. But knowing what he knows about the island WHY didn’t he turn the plane around when he saw Jack and the Oceanic 6? (Although the “We’re not going to Guam, are we?” line was amazing).
    .
    Finally, the guy from Three Kings (whose character name is, apparently, Caesar) — racial stereotyping would say he’s Sayid’s stand-in, but really, we know NOTHING about him.

  • Dave

    Remember, Walt didn’t read the comic book until they crashed. It was Hurley’s on the plane :)
    `
    I think Caesar is either a Ben or Widmore plant.
    `
    @Tom Shaw – did we hear Jin speak perfect English, or is that an assumption you’re making (I was watching it on DVR late, so details from the very end of the episode are fuzzy to me)? Either way, I agree… the Islanders have definitely been there for about 3 years.
    `
    I’m also assuming that the Incident is going to be what sends the Losties back to 2008/2009ish times.
    `
    I also think the plane did crash. I don’t really have much in the way of evidence, but I do think it crashed. /shrug

  • natego

    @Chaddog..

    IMO… Sun is playing Sun, Hurley is playing Hurley (he had a comic with him on the original flight so i think there’s no relation to Walt), Sayid is playing Kate (woman is stand-in), Ceasar is playing Sayid, Kate and the others is an interesting one – not sure..

  • Tom Shaw

    Practically all my post is theorizing – Jin didn’t actually speak last night, Sawyer didn’t have any kids, etc. But I’m calling dibs on all those ideas :)
    -
    And Grandpa Sheppard’s sudden appearance is out of the blue – but this being Lost, he was probably on the Army’s 1954 nuke expedition/in the DI/otherwise connected to the Lost mythology.

  • alalia

    I agree about the marina fake-out. It would simply take too much time to pilot a boat from England to LA, but it’s always possible. I just really want nothing bad to have happened to Penny.

    And wouldn’t Kate be playing Shannon, in a way? She after all slept with Jake as means of drowning herself, much like Shannon did with Boone. I guess that means Ben is Locke, and Jake is both himself–taking a father figure back home–and Charlie (as a drug addict). Are they ever going to address why Jack was being haunted in LA? After all, that is what caused him to start taking pills.

  • Chaddogg

    One more thing — to those of you that think this episode was a let-down, this is one half of a two-episode block (along with next week’s “The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham”), so I’d hold back on the disappointment.
    .
    I mean, just imagine if you had only seen one hour of the Pilot. Or of “Through the Looking Glass.” Neither episode would have been NEARLY as compelling without a complete view of all the parts.

  • diannasue

    I think it’s odd no one has touched on the condition of the VW van that Jin was driving. Or maybe it is so obvious that no one needed to comment. The van was in mint condition. But do you remember when Hurley first found it – it was pretty shabby looking. I think it is a clue that they made it back to the island but several years earlier. What do you think?

    Also, I think Kate’s love for Aaron caused her to give him to Claire’s Mom. Sort of the only way to protect him from the island curse.

  • kyyellowdog

    I love Lepidus, but the first thing I thought when he announced himself was that he’s the pilot on this flight because he was supposed to die as the pilot of 815. Hope not.

    I love the idea of Grandpa Shephard being far more involved than we realize. His eagerness to leave the nursing home, although common and understandable, parallels a little too closely Jack’s desperation to get back to the island.

    And Grandpa didn’t seem remotely confused to me. In fact, he looked quite a bit knowing. I half expected him to say something like “See you on the Island.”

  • daveed1025

    Does anyone else think that Hurley put food in that guitar case?

  • Dave

    @Tom – I knew everything after the Jin comment was theory, but I couldn’t remember if Jin actually spoke :) (Side note: am I the only one recalling Hurley’s dream where Jin is speaking perfect English?) It’s like you were typing out my own thought process. It was spooky. (I don’t have a bloody nose… do you? Do I need to call you and talk to you?)
    `
    @diannasue – Also note that Jin was wearing a Dharma outfit. Now we’ve seen both Jin and Daniel in Dharma times, in Dharma outfits. I’m with Tom in thinking that most or all of the on-Island Losties are working with the DI (hey, everyone needs a dentist!).
    `
    I want to go back and watch the Ben background episode. I recall seeing Pierre Chang in welcome videos on TVs in the background, and I’d like to see if he still has the use of his left hand. I’m curious whether the Linus family arrived pre- or post-Incident, because I think that the Losties will return home during the Incident itself. If the Linus family arrive pre-Incident, and the Losties are working among the DI as their own, are Losties going to meet a young Ben Linus? I don’t know if I trust Sawyer not to try to beat the crap out of a teenage Ben :)

  • Dave

    @kyyellowdog – I was thinking that the original pilot on 815 died because he wasn’t Frank Lapidus.

  • kyyellowdog

    @ Dave

    I was thinking that the original pilot on 815 died because he wasn’t Frank Lapidus.

    Ah. Excellent point.

  • natego

    @daveed.. per my initial post, I thought Hurley might have food in the case.. that was my first thought, especially when it came to Hurley :)

  • Matt

    The thing is, we don’t know ALL the Losties are working with Dharma – some could be with the “Hostiles”. And that aside, I have a suspicion that Ben, Sun & Sayid wind up being found by the Hostiles. I don’t think those three (and Frank and the mysterious first class duo?) went to another time. We’ve just spend 6 episodes with the cast split up, now it’s reunion time.

  • Dave

    When I saw the guitar case, I was thinking that Charlie asked Hurley to bring a guitar back for him :)
    `
    @Matt – I hadn’t thought of some of the Losties as going with the Hostiles. Maybe they initially get found by the Hostiles and agree to have Daniel and Jin (and more?) infiltrate the DI.

  • Dave

    Ok, update on Incident/Linus timetable – in the Barracks orientation video (per Lostpedia, of course), Chang does not move his left arm, and he’s wearing a Swan lab coat. That implies that the Linuses arrived post-Incident, putting the Losties there early- to mid-70′s?

  • profdante

    Okay so if I knew that the plane that I was on was very likely going to somehow crash on a tropical jungle island — and *especially* if I had previously lived on the aforementioned island for an extended period of time and knew how horrible the living conditions were — I would sure as hell bring all kinds of gear on the plane with me — hiking boots, canteens, compasses, practical clothes (i.e., not a suit and tie — I’m looking at you Jack). Just how seriously did Hawking intend for them to recreate the initial flight? Did that include limitations on what they were supposed to wear/bring? Serious lack of advanced planning…

  • alekshy

    So this hasn’t really been touched upon, but I thought it was rather interesting. After seeing the Air Marshall who was escorting Sayid, I spent all night trying to remember where I’ve seen her before. Not until this morning did my X-Files alarm start going off did I realize that she was the main female character in the short-lived Fox series, The Lone Gunmen, which was a spin-off of the X-Files.
    .
    The creators have used certain elements of X-Files in Lost, including some of the numbers.
    .
    The actress’ name is Zuleikha Robinson, and according to IMDb, her character, Ilana, will be showing up again in next week’s episode. However, IMDb only says those two, so does that mean she doesn’t make it to the Island?

  • Dave

    In the preview of next week’s episode, it looks like she is talking to Locke on a beach on an island. When they talk, where the beach is, and what island it is, we don’t know. (I think it’s the Hydra island, for the record)

  • natego

    hey guys can we please avoid spoiler-ish content?? I don’t watch the previews on purpose.

  • Tom Shaw

    @Dave – “It’s like you were typing out my own thought process. It was spooky.”
    http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/2009/02/12/lost-is-a-hit-online-even-when-off-air/#comment-19381
    -
    And re the Arabian Marshall: If Hawking did manage to arrange Hurley’s/Sayid’s/etc. trip on 36 hours notice, it would not be a surprise that the Marshall works for Hawking, and that she might be involved with Bentham’s affairs once he got back. That she does not (apparently) appear in the rest of this season is more evidence that, if 316 crashed, it landed in 2008, so to speak, vs. when the O6 (and maybe Ben) landed.

  • Dave

    @natego – sorry about that… we haven’t really set any rules in stone about what constitutes a spoiler and what doesn’t (at least we haven’t recently). It doesn’t help that folks have a variety of definitions of what’s a spoiler. For example, Alan Sepinwall’s blog considers any preview or commercial content to be spoilers, but not actor contracts and appearances, while I view it as quite the opposite. Purely hypothetically, what would be more spoilerific, seeing a .8-second shot of a major character in Dharma times, or finding out that a major character’s contract wasn’t being renewed after X episode? I just see ABC’s trailers and commercials as content they choose to show us early, usually in a very misleading way :)
    `
    Out of respect for everyone, though, let’s try to avoid talk of trailer content.

  • Dave

    @Tom – Great. NOW my nose has started bleeding. Now where’s my notebook where I wrote down your/my contact info in case anything goes wrong…
    `
    I don’t know much about planes and flying at all, but I’m curious what kind of plane Ajira 316 is, how much runway it needs to land safely, and how much runway the Others had finished. (I’m imagining Frank having a line along the lines of, “I don’t know who the hell would put a runway here, but I’m sure glad they did.”) Plus, that would free up a LOT of red shirts to die!
    `
    As I watched with my buddy Dave, we were snickering at the red Ajira coats the flight attendants were wearing. We were disappointed that every passenger in the back wasn’t wearing some kind of red shirt :)

  • shara says

    @natego – I’ve definitely been guilty of preview-discussage in the past, I didn’t know it bothered folks – sorry!

  • kyyellowdog

    Best line definitely Lapidus’, but best plot point was Hurley buying 78 seats and not letting anybody have them in order to minimize casualties.

    Jack and Locke do a lot of ordering people around, and Sawyer and Sayid are hunks to die for, and Desmond is by far the most romantic, but Hurley … Hurley is the real hero. His count of lives saved is now 81 – the 78 empty seats plus Jin, Bernard and Sayid on the beach with the Dharma van.

  • natego

    @shara,dave.. no prob! Appreciate the consideration!

  • profdante

    At first, my assumption was that the O6 (and possibly others nearby, like the other salient passengers) ‘blink’ out of the plane as they shift in time to the Island. Thus, no plane crash/landing necessary — just some Rapture-like disappearance. However, the telltale Ajira waterbottle in the outrigger now makes me think it might have crashed after all. If that’s the case, wow wait until the media get hold of the passenger manifest for the Ajira crash: “Oceanic 5 travel together, cause 2nd crash!!”

  • shara says

    I was a big fan of last night’s episode, I really liked how they answered questions while raising several other mysteries. I was relieved that they didn’t try to cram in the Kate, Hurley, Sayid, and Beat-up Ben stories all into one episode, I like having gaps that will be filled in later. My only concern (if you can even call it that) about this season is (as has been said by many others) that as the endgame approaches, the series has moved towards a more plot-centered focus, rather than a theme-and-character-centered focus (which had made early episode stand-alone works of art). By leaving significant parts of these stories out of the picture for now, maybe it will allow for a return to that kind of storytelling.
    .
    My favorite line – Ben saying “my mom taught me”. God that dude can deliver one-liners like nobody’s business.
    .
    Kate: I think that she either left the baby with Cassidy and Clementine (hopefully there will be a flashback episode at SOME point with Kim Dickens!), or that she left the baby with Claire’s mom. Claire’s mom is the obvious bet, because I don’t think that Cassidy was supposed to be living in LA.
    .
    Hurley: I’m guessing that Charlie has been paying him more visits, and convinced him that he had to come back. The guitar case surely represents Charlie.
    .
    Sayid: No idea.
    .
    My first thought was that ben was going after Penny. I would LOVE to see Desmond giving Ben a solid butt-kicking at some point. I still think that is a possible scenario, but as folks have mentioned above its certainly possible that the marina setting was just a fake-out. I imagine it would take about forever to sail from Britain to LA, so I guess that means that either its a fake-out or the writers are playing fast and loose with the timeline. So what else could Ben have meant by “promise to an old friend”? If he’s not talking about Widmore, maybe he’s talking about something to do with Annie (probably the only *real* friend we’ve ever seen him have)?

  • mssplendor

    I’m not sure how Caeser, played by Saïd Taghmaoui, the passenger Hurley tells to buckle up, , is going to figure into the story just yet, but I thought it was interesting that he was in Vantage Point with Matthew Fox and now he is popping up on Lost.

  • shara says

    OK, sorry for what may become a doublepost. The name of the actress who plays Cassidy apparantly is a trigger for “awaiting moderation”, and james isn’t around to clear it, so here’s what I was trying to post.

    I was a big fan of last night’s episode, I really liked how they answered questions while raising several other mysteries. I was relieved that they didn’t try to cram in the Kate, Hurley, Sayid, and Beat-up Ben stories all into one episode, I like having gaps that will be filled in later. My only concern (if you can even call it that) about this season is (as has been said by many others) that as the endgame approaches, the series has moved towards a more plot-centered focus, rather than a theme-and-character-centered focus (which had made early episode stand-alone works of art). By leaving significant parts of these stories out of the picture for now, maybe it will allow for a return to that kind of storytelling.
    .
    My favorite line – Ben saying “my mom taught me”. God that dude can deliver one-liners like nobody’s business.
    .
    Kate: I think that she either left the baby with Cassidy and Clementine (hopefully there will be a flashback episode at SOME point with [that actress who plays Cassidy but everytime I post something with her name it holds my comments up for moderation!]), or that she left the baby with Claire’s mom. Claire’s mom is the obvious bet, because I don’t think that Cassidy was supposed to be living in LA.
    .
    Hurley: I’m guessing that Charlie has been paying him more visits, and convinced him that he had to come back. The guitar case surely represents Charlie.
    .
    Sayid: No idea.
    .
    My first thought was that ben was going after Penny. I would LOVE to see Desmond giving Ben a solid butt-kicking at some point. I still think that is a possible scenario, but as folks have mentioned above its certainly possible that the marina setting was just a fake-out. I imagine it would take about forever to sail from Britain to LA, so I guess that means that either its a fake-out or the writers are playing fast and loose with the timeline. So what else could Ben have meant by “promise to an old friend”? If he’s not talking about Widmore, maybe he’s talking about something to do with Annie (probably the only *real* friend we’ve ever seen him have)?

  • Matt

    @Shara – I just realized that the promise could also refer to Locke. Other than Jin’s ring, we have no idea what they spoke about.

  • cherishb

    About the whole plane landing on a runway thing… I believe the others were building the runway on Hydra island and when 06 came back to the island we see Jack, Kate and Hurley meeting Jin in Dharma time. Therefore wouldn’t it be safe to say that since they land back in Dharma time the runway wouldnt have been built yet? Just a thought

  • Dave

    @cherishb – I’m thinking that Jack, Hurley, Kate, Sayid, and Sun all get flashed back to DI days, but the plane itself lands in 2008.

  • natego

    @Dave… i thought the island was physically moving as Hawking stated. THen, how do they both land the plane and also go back in time on the island? Does the plane land in Guam as planned?

  • Matt

    @natego – The O6 (or at least 3 of them) appear to “flash” off the plane and go back in time… it’s sort of like the Stephen King story “The Langoliers” (and we know how much the writers like referencing SK). And the plane WAS going through heavy, heavy turbulance, so a nice, convenient runway would seem mighty nice.

  • Dave

    That’s correct, Matt. The O6 flash away, but the plane itself stays in 2008.

  • logical66

    no one is commenting that this show is becoming a metaphor of the Bible.

    the things that don’t make sense (smoke monster, polar bear on a tropical island) are just accepted by the viewers.
    how many viewers are, like, “oh no, here comes that smoke monster”?

    an island that moves? really?!
    and, the answer to how to reach it is secured by “the church”?
    ah yes, the “church” has all of the answers … including ones they don’t want you to know or it will destroy their very being.

    brutha man, Desmond, is done. he’s done believing and thus he’s now a “non-believer”. done with religion? is he “doubting Thomas”?
    but, the others who believe are “true believers”, lost without the Island … or is that “lost without God”?
    the island heals, so John Locke thinks.
    as did Matthew for Jesus, is Locke the Island’s Matthew?

    lost is not about being lost on an island.
    it’s about being lost without the island (or, w/o God).
    and, you must believe in the island and love the island and protect the island.
    even if you must kill in the name of the island (or, again, is that God?)

  • natego

    @logical.. its no secret that this show is influenced highly by religion. Even the producers have acknowledged the connections. Also, people on this blog have often commented on the biblical references..

  • shara says

    @logical66 – that is definitely one of the more interesting questions we’ve been dealing with this season – is this show a “sci fi” show (where we’re expecting some semblence of a scientific explanation for things) or a “fantasy” show (where things are explained in spiritual or supernatural ways). Which comes down to the basic divide of Man of science, Man of Faith dichotomy that the show has been all about since day one.
    .
    I had a different take on the Church – I saw that location as being either a blend of the science (its a Dharma science station) and the mystical (its under a freaking church), or as science masquerading as mystical stuff (as a metaphor for what we’ve seen so far).

  • antilles13

    You can put me down squarely in the “unimpressed” column for 316. Chaddog had a post early on questioning why some people were disappointed, so I’m going to try to flesh out my thoughts.
    -
    I agree with Shara that trying to tell everyone’s backstory (how they all decided-or were forced-to get on the plane) in one episode would have been a bad idea. But spending the whole episode discussing why Jack got on the plane was also a bad move IMO. They could have told Jack’s story in half the time, and inter-woven some on-island stuff into (for instance, how did Jin & co. end up in the Dharma-era, why they “joined” the DI, etc.). That would have been more effective – start the season or a multi-episode arc with seeing everyone on the plane, then showing how they got there in separate episodes. YOu know, kind of how they did in S1…
    -
    My main disappointment, however, was with the script itself – specifically that this was penned by DL and CC. They’ve said several times (once being on the DVD commentary for “The Constant”) that they try very hard to make the character’s reactions to events genuine – that they would react like a normal person (or their normal character would). I didn’t see ANY of that this episode, with the sole exception of Hurley. Some examples…
    -Desmond in the beginning. I would have been FREAKING OUT if I was him upon learning that Hawking was Faraday’s mother. He waited ten minutes before even mentioning that he had met this women before, failed to explain the circumstances, and then NO ONE calls him on it? Every single person in the room should have been questioning his statement that this women wasted 4 years of his life. Coupling that with “you have to recreate 815 to get back” as a completely lame rationale – they couldn’t think to try that on their own? – and that entire scene was a major let down for what should have been a seminal scene for Lost.
    -Dave already touched on Kate’s completely wacked-out behavior this episode, but I’m sure that will get explained at some point. Even more troublesome to me was that Jack agreed, flat out, never to ask about Aaron. Are you kidding me?!?! One, that’s his nephew. Two, Jack questions everything! He’ll always fight to get an answer. Now, “it’s none of your business, don’t ever ask me again” is good enough? About Aaron? Please.
    -More Jack… Ben shows up on the plane with a sling and a face resembling a punching bag, and instead of asking about that Jack asks how Ben can read a book? What?!
    -Sayid. He made it clear 46 hours earlier he has no interest in going back to the Island. He gets escorted onto a plane, all of the rest of the O6 show up on that same plane, and he says nothing?!?! He should have been flipping out trying to get that women to take a different flight!
    - The officer herself. Presumably she’s done some research on Sayid before arresting him. She has to know about the O6 and their “famous” faces, but she doesn’t recognize any of them when they board the plane??
    -
    Bottom line, none of the characters seemed genuine to me this episode, other than Hurley and the one scene where Jack was putting the shoes on Locke (that was a great scene). Hurley buying the tickets and freaking out when Ben got onboard were great. The guitar (which presume was something of CHarlie’s) was cool, as was Lapidus. But overall I thought they could have done so much better. WHen I saw that DL and CC wrote the episode I was even more disappointed. (Especially after coming off such a great episode last week).
    -
    Sorry to be “negative-Nancy” this week. I will say next week’s episode looks fantastic.

  • shara says

    @antilles: “Even more troublesome to me was that Jack agreed, flat out, never to ask about Aaron. Are you kidding me?!?! One, that’s his nephew. Two, Jack questions everything! He’ll always fight to get an answer.”
    .
    I’m with you on that one, at least generally. However, I didn’t think that his initial reaction was out-of-character, per se. Because at this point he’s not Strong, Stable Island Jack but Broken, Desperate Jack, and his girl has just showed up again, telling him that she’s on board with his wacky plan, and he’s just so glad she’s there, and all up on him, that he could put the question on the back burner for the moment because he was getting multiple things that he wanted. But I totally was getting a vibe every single time that he looked at her that not knowing was killing him. This is not going to go away, Jack can pretend that he’s changed into this “let things go” kinda guy, but this is eventually going to be a dealbreaker, and its going to prove to Kate that Jack isn’t the right one for her. If this DOESN’T come back upI’m seeing this as the issue that is going to drive them apart just in time for Sawyer to show back up. Yay!!!
    .
    Lapidus was awesome, but MAN he looks strange without his scruffy beard.
    .
    I get what you’re saying about people’s reactions in some of those examples. My cynical side says that the writers were giving us as little to work with as possible, to make their backstories even more mysterious. My indulgent side chalks Desmond’s reaction up to the fact that there were folks around that he didn’t trust (Ben and Ms. Hawking), and a strange gathering of folks he never expected to see again, all with unspecified motives, and he was just reeling quietly. My indulgent take on Sayid and Hurley in the plane/ waiting room was that they were both feeling quiet resignation to the fate that they never wanted.

  • antilles13

    @shara- I’m sure Jack was happy he was gettin’ some, but that wasn’t until AFTER he agreed never to ask about Aaron. Of course, Kate jumping him at that point was strange in and of itself. She has a really bad habit about getting into the sack for really bad reasons, so it probably shouldn’t have been surprising, but I actually cringed when she kissed him. (And I’m one of those who’d rather see her end up Jack.)
    -
    I just didn’t buy the opening sequence at all, which obviously set up the whole episode. We – and the O6 – have been given numerous indications that the Island wants them to come back (Jack’s visions, Hurley’s visions, Richard’s message to Locke, etc.). Hawking even said during that scene that the Island isn’t done with Desmond. So why do they have to go through all this trouble to get back to the Island if the Island wants them to come back? It makes no sense. The whole thing about Locke needing to have something of Christian’s was silly to me. The Island WANTS them back – why do they need to go through the whole charade about having people “stand in” for individuals (or dead bodies) on 815? I would think if the Island really wanted them it would have taken them off that plane (316) regardless of whether Locke was wearing Christian’s shoes.
    -
    Going to see grandpa and ultimately ending up with the shoes seemed like an unnecessary plot point and a waste of time, though I agree gramps will probably come back into play sometime. (Wouldn’t it be funny if he were Charlotte’s dad?)
    -
    Bring on The Life … of Jeremy Bentham (I’m not looking forward to the “Death” part – seeing Locke hang himself is going to be heart-wrenching. I guess Tom Shaw’s right, though, that Locke is really dead).

  • jako1840

    I’m glad to see others thought the same thing about Locke’s five o’clock shadow. I posted that I noticed this in this episode’s previews, to the pre-show discussion group on James’s blog, but got no response. I wondered if it was just me until I saw 316 last night. Then I questioned if he had truly been clean-shaven in the coffin in previous episodes, so it’s nice to read I wasn’t alone on noticing that, after all. I still think Locke could be “island-alive”, just as his legs were (well, most of the time, anyway, but they sure did get abused), but otherwise in a state of death-like suspended animation that slows, but doesn’t stop things like hair growth.

    Another thing struck me last night. Others here have noted that Ray seemed to know more than he was telling. That whole Shepard line is in deep with the island, eh? And I thought he looked awfully young to be Christian’s father, much as others have observed Widmore looks awfully young to have been on the island in the Jughead episode. According to IMDB, “Ray” is 69, and “Christian” is 59.Now, an actor’s age can be ignored with casting decisions, but I’m guessing that’s not the case here. The actor is younger than he should be because Ray is/looks young because of his island time. Maybe he was another of the soldiers along with Widmore and Hawking?

  • antilles13

    I just got done reading Doc Jensen (it’s been a LONG day), which opened my eyes to some things. I’m totally on board with his “Jacks grandpa is really Jack” theory. SOMETHING more than the shoes has to come from that scene, and I thought during the show that hey looked an awful lot alike. Plus, a lot of the things Ray was saying were especially poignant – I was surprised (and even more frustrated) when nothing really came of it during 316.

  • antilles13

    Okay, I watching it again and I think I’ve come to a better interpretation (maybe I was just a little too frustrated, like Matt, the first time around).
    -
    The thing about the shoes. Hawking has that line in there about “forget about it being ridiculous, it only matters whether you believe it will work.” I originally interpreted that as DL essentially saying, “for now it doesn’t make sense, but just go with it,” which at this point in the show was a little infuriating. Watching the second time, I don’t think that line is directed at the audience at all. I think the whole thing about giving something of his father’s to Locke was just a test for Jack – a test of faith. Yes, it’s ridiculous, but you have to show the Island that you believe – that’s why Hawking referred to it as a leap of faith. Jack still doesn’t believe, even as he’s putting on the shoes he makes that joke about Locke laughing at him, which I took as Jack really questioning himself. But then, as Doc Jensen points out – Jack’s reaction to Locke’s note – “I wish you believed me” – completes Jack’s transition to a man of faith. Seeing the first scene again, where Desmond finally comes around to blowing a gasket (still say he was a little slow on the draw there, but whatever), and there’s a line there where Des tells Jack they’re just pawns in Ben’s/Widmore’s/Hawking’s game. It mirrored the message Jack gave Locke in S2 about pushing the button, only now Jack’s on the other side. Three years later, Jack finally comes around, and that scene on the plane reading Locke’s note finally clinched it. (I think Ben’s speech about Thomas in the church fits in as well – Jack finally realizes he doesn’t have to “touch the wound”, he’ll just take it on faith.) Then, he’s “reborn” on the Island – and that scene, IMO, was by far Foxy’s best scene in the ep.
    -
    Okay, I’m cool now – please ignore my earlier venting.

  • alekshy

    @antilles13, I’m thinking there’s more to Sayid’s story than we know as of now. All we saw was him leaving the parking lot all disgruntled. I’m sure the Marshal with him either works for someone important or somehow knew to get him on that flight. Sure he might have already had his freak out moment of “Why the hell are we flying to Guam?” But once he sees Jack and crew boarding the plane, he puts the pieces together. I may be wrong, maybe he knew the entire time and planned to get on the plane. I’m sure we’ll find out next week.

  • natego

    @antilles..”So why do they have to go through all this trouble to get back to the Island if the Island wants them to come back? It makes no sense.”

    I think this falls under “the island wants you to do it yourself”. Just like Christian would not help Locke, the island wants the O6 to come back of their own volition, wants them to have faith in coming back. Also, the “charade” of recreating the flight was to try to prevent catastrophic changes in events when they get back, NOT simply as a requirement to getting back.

    Also, I think the lack of reaction/questions of the 06 on the plane is purposeful to show they are all on board with the plan for some reason, or are resigned to going back and are too dejected to ask questions.. they feel its inevitable or have found a reason to give up hope of not going back. Why this is the case, I am sure we will find out later. And, maybe the Officer that captured Sayid works for Ben and Sayid just thinks he’s caught and is being extradited, while he’s simply being forced on the flight that is going back to the island. Even if Sayid had questions about where they were going, nothin’ he could do if he’s in custody.

    Wouldn’t Jack spending a lot of time with his grandfather screw events up or create some weird time thing if the “grandad” was actually Jack talking to himself?

    Re: lack of reaction to Desmond.. they may all know his story/involvement with Hawking.. in general, they all seemed to not really care as they are already drinkin’ the kool-aid when it comes to going back. They may just write off Desmonds anger to being just a general hatred of the island. I guess im just saying the fact they asked no questions didnt bother me that much. Yknow, sometimes when someone freaks out and throws a nutty in front of a large crowd, there’s just a bit of awkward silence, they say “geeze, whats his deal”, then everyone goes about their bizness :)

  • http://www.approachinglost.com/2009/02/20/lost-506-metareview/ LOST 5.06 metareview

    [...] Time’s John Cloud: Damon and Carlton had said fans would strangle them if they spend the entire season getting the O6 back to the island, so rushing them there and then filling in with flashbacks seems the exact right move. [...]

blog comments powered by Disqus