Tuned In

Lostwatch: Explosive Revelations

ABC
ABC

 

SPOILER ALERT: Before you read this post, fill it with lead, encase it in concrete and bury it until you watch last night’s Lost. 

 

So first we landed on an Island. It seemed pretty small. But it turned out you could cram a lot of locations on it. There was a tower. A wrecked boat. A system of hatches buried underneath it. And offshore. And there was another island. So, yeah, it turns out it was kind of roomy. 

Now take that same Island, and stretch it out in time so you can visit it a year ago, or ten, or 50—or more. That Island is huge

And where I had been concerned that this season might involve a lot of time-filling—stretching out the process of getting the Oceanic Six back—clearly the time-flashing means that there is a tremendous amount of Island history we could explore; here, our first direct vision of the Island before Dharma. 

In terms of character exploration, we have a lot left to discover too. I give thanks every episode that Jeremy Davies was cast as Daniel. This episode, we got a glimpse of his nebbishy tenderness (conffessing his love for Charlotte) and his leadership (as he took command of the bomb incident and turned it to his advantage); meanwhile, we also got a suggestion of a dark, cold side, as we saw what he was willing to do in the name of his science—not to mention who was willing to fund it. 

In the meantime, Desmond’s brief U.K. jaunt led us to a conclusion that a lot of people had already guessed, here and elsewhere—that Daniel’s mom is in L.A., which is to say, she is (or could likely be) Ms. Hawking. What I didn’t get was why we needed, narratively, the initial scene of Penny giving birth. Don’t get me wrong—it’s nice to know and all, but following so close on their tearful reunion it didn’t have much cathartic purpose. (Whereas it was moving to see the couple on the deck of the boat with their child.) If we saw Des and Penny with their son, we’d pretty much infer that time had passed and she’d had a baby. I can’t see what we gained from the scene—which didn’t have much suspense or emotional payoff either—but all that leads me to suspect that it will for some reason prove to be very important. 

In any case, Des is now off to join the O6 in L.A. I hope he plans to fly. 

I was more intrigued by Des’ showdown with Charles Widmore—that Desmond had the strength, in this encounter, to set the terms, demand answers and refuse to answer questions, and that Widmore would urge him to flee for his and Penny’s safety. (Not a bad idea. Recall that Ben has pledged to kill Penny, after Widmore “changed the rules.” Say, who else is in L.A.?) 

But it didn’t have quite the impact of Locke’s meeting with Widmore, half a century earlier. “What’s it to you?” “Nothing. Nice to meet you.”) Which apparently set into motion Richard Alpert’s visit to child Locke—several years later, after Locke had been born—and perhaps the initiation of the “process” by which the Others choose their leader. 

By the way, I didn’t even miss the Oceanic Six, did you? On to the hail of H-bombs: 

* Why has Charlotte—and only Charlotte—so far fallen to nosebleed disease? I’ve heard the theory that it has to do with the implication that she was born on the Island. But as far as we know Minkowski, and anyone else who succumbed to it before, was born on the Island. If there is any significance to Charlotte’s having been born there (if she was), are we going to discover that any other characters were? Say, Penny? 

* Conversely, how did Daniel’s experiment subject, Theresa, manage to come down with Constant sickness and yet not die?  

* Sweet that Charlie lives, at least as Des and Penny’s baby. 

* At some point, will more redshirts have died than actual people survived the plane crash?

* We’ve now met young Mr. Widmore. Any chance the short-haired soldier woman is Ms. Hawking–and, thus, Daniel’s mom? (Although—I couldn’t quite tell—her accent did sound a little more Australian than British.) Still—”You look so much like someone I used to know.” Yes, the reference overtly seemed to be the girl whose brain he fried at Oxford. But who knows? 

* The Others speak Latin? Qui-TF? Not that we haven’t asked this question before, but between this and Richard’s intimation that they’ve had a succession of leaders before him (chosen, Dalai Lama-style, as children)—and given that Richard does not seem to, er, age that quickly himself… how the hell long have these people been on this island? 

* So there’s a hydrogen bomb buried on the island. A once-leaky hydrogen bomb. Buried. Underground. The same underground that apparently contains a source of energy with the potential to alter time. That’s… a little dicey, right? Any connection to the cataclysm that pushing the numbers in the hatch was meant to forestall? I don’t know. But I’d walk lightly. And avoid sneezing.

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  • Matt

    So I feel vindicated in my guess that the people who were threatening Juliet & Sawyer last week were Widmore’s people… except that they were Widmore. And people.
    .
    It seems that the only immortal(?) Other is Richard – because none of the Crash-era Others are British. Well, Ethan was Canadian. But I don’t remember any season 1-4 Others being British. So clearly, they get replenished often. And get Latin lessons to boot. Side note: As a former Classics student, learning to speak Latin is tough – so kudos, Alii (yep, that’s Latin for “Others”)
    .
    The only issue with my guess that Richard is the only immortal is that Alan Dale’s Widmore is clearly not 70+. So there is still something funky going on.

  • natego

    FINALLY FINALLY FINALLY FINALLY!!! Some freakin answers… ohhhh they taste so good..

  • natego

    How is Theresa alive? Hmm perhaps Widmore knows how to treat it (he is providing her care after all)…. I’m just curious, did we ever meet Widmore’s wife? If not, maybe Theresa is her? He keeps her alive since she is his wife and he offered her up for experimentation with Daniel.. AND, she is the young girl that Daniel recognizes… Widmore and her had Penny when they met on the island.

  • natego

    regarding Hydrogen bomb.. i have an strong feeling the entire series will end with the bomb exploding and destroying the island forever.. and someone goes down with the ship i bet.. maybe locke…

  • mcmagnus

    Great episode.

    I’m not sure why Lost scenes have to go through some sort of pass/fail system with you, but for me, I loved the first scene. Not absolutely necessary, but why would if have to be? It efficiently builds a little bit of history over the three years that Desmond and Penny have been reunited. I shudder to think of the criticism that some people would come up with if they just showed a kid like he had always been there.

    I love the casting work they do on this show. As soon as I heard “Widmore,” it clicked. The facial features, the idiosyncratic scrunch up the face, even the speech patterns.

    I don’t know why, but Juliet recognizing the (dead) language of the others was so cool.

    And “Jughead” as the name of a 1950′s H-Bomb. It was absolutely perfect.

  • chelsea15jk

    I totally was right when I said crazy arrow people might be the Hostiles. Yeah, it’s not that big of a deal, but I never try to theorize, so let me just think I’m cool. XD

    Anways, OMG! That young guy was Charles Widmore! Yay for a few answers, at least.

    I really hope Charlotte isn’t dead. I hate her, but I love Daniel, so yeah. And pretty sure the whole time he was holding her to him at the end, all I could think was “You’re gonna get blood on your shirt.”

  • denisemorris

    This isn’t related to this episode, but does anyone have any idea how/why Christian is important to the island? How can he speak for Jacob? How did he become important to the island? We haven’t seen anything significant that answers any of these questions, have we?

  • meg7

    Loved the episode. So far season is good, fast paced. I was worried they would waste time but we seem to be getting right to it :)
    Daniel’s mother is Mrs Hawking, her name is Eloise Hawking, remember Eloise, Daniel’s experimental white mouse…..
    I wonder why Daniel’s research is funded by Widmore and his mom is chummy with Ben…..

  • Matt

    There was an interesting parallel drawn this episode between Faraday and Desmond – both have skipped out on someone(s). And if Ms. Hawking is Daniel’s mother, then no wonder they did so.

  • jcrhoo

    Lostpedia does indeed say Ms. Hawking’s first name is Eloise. When did we learn that?

  • jcrhoo

    And duh, if Eloise is indeed Ms. Hawking’s first name — as appears to be the consensus — then can we all agree that she is the blonde “Ellie” who chaperons Faraday to the bomb? The woman who “looks so much like” someone Daniel knows? Her hairstyle is even similar.

  • meg7

    I don’t remember if her name was ever mentioned in the show…I remember reading it in one of the “enhanced” lost episodes where notes come written at the bottom of the screen….
    If “Ellie” is indeed Eloise and she is on the island, I wonder if Daniel’s father is on the island too…..noticed a total absence of any mention of his father as yet…..and no male figure at his home too….

  • meg7

    Also anyone has any thoughts about what Ms. Hawkings connection would be with Brother Campbell, who was in the monastery with Desmond.

  • denisemorris

    I totally think Widmore is Faraday’s father.

  • meg7

    @denisemorris
    that would be very interesting, Eloise now helping Ben against Widmore….
    And does that make Penny and Daniel, bro-sis or is some one else going to come in as Penny’s mother……uptil now I didn’t realise that Penny’s mother has not been mentioned at all…..

  • jcrhoo

    Entirely possible, Denise, since Widmore and Ellie (Hawking?) were on the island together and neither Penny’s mom nor Daniel’s dad has been identified. … Then again, I am getting a little tired of there being a generational connection every time an older or younger character shows up.

  • Dave

    @denisemorris – you’re lucky I went to bed last night instead of posting. I was all set with a cheesy exchange between Daniel and Widmore. “Your mother never told you the truth about your father.” “She told me enough! She told me you killed him!” “No, Daniel. I am your father!” “No. No. That’s not true. That’s impossible!” “Search your feelings. You know it to be true.” “NOOOOooo.” Hopefully Widmore won’t cut off Daniel’s arm.
    `
    I’ll have more to say when I’m at work.
    `
    Parting note: is anyone else wondering who the current Other leader is? Christian Shepherd? Jacob?

  • Dave

    Also, ‘Eloise’ Hawking, per Lostpedia: “Her first name is given as Eloise in the Enhanced version of The Lie, and is yet to be said on the show.”
    `
    We know from past interviews with the producers that Enhanced episodes are not considered canon. At least at the time of the interview, Enhanced episodes were produced by a third-party company. However, it’s a pretty ballsy claim, so perhaps that third-party company found out Ms. Hawking’s first name, or Cuse and Lindelof are playing a bigger role in the Enhanced episodes.
    `
    So, to sum up: it’s not canon, but that doesn’t mean it’s not true. (I think it’s true that it’s Eloise Hawking… or Eloise Faraday, with Ms. Hawking being a sort of pen name)

  • beerbaron

    I have a feeling that little Charlie Hume someday gets angry at his dad (say, after Desmond breaks his promise and returns to the island) and starts using his mom’s maiden name instead. I don’t know how the boy goes back in time or gets to the island, but did we witness the birth of the one and only Charles Widmore in that first scene?

  • Dave

    @beerbaron – I dunno, I’m ok with a compass paradox. I’m not so sure about a major character only existing in a time loop :)

  • Dave

    Ok, I’m at work, so I can be thoroughly productive (for the LDG). First of all, the group in the tents seemed like they’re Richard’s warriors. We didn’t see another leader among them, and yet we know that they have a succession of leaders that aren’t Richard. (Side note: it was nice for someone to finally acknowledge that Richard is very, very old. I was kind of getting sick of “Maybe Richard is always time traveling” theories.) Speaking of the leadership selection process, do they normally start as young as Locke was when Richard went after him as a boy? Would that make Ben the exception? Did Widmore take leadership by force (Ben-style?), or was he being bred for it from the start? It didn’t look like he had been living there for all or most of his life, though he wasn’t wearing his own clothing, and he could have picked up the accent from a group of Brits. /shrug
    `
    Is the h-bomb instrumental in the Incident? Remember when Sayid said, “The last time I heard of concrete being poured over everything in this way was Chernobyl”?

    @meg7 – Yes, I was also expecting Desmond to run into Brother Campbell, though I was wondering if that ‘janitor’ was someone we’d recognize. Maybe Brother Campbell really is involved, but we just haven’t seen him yet.

  • Matt

    @beerbaron – that’s kinda gross. penny is her father’s mother?

  • natego

    How in the world would Penny give birth to her own father? I thought it was pretty well assumed they named the kid after the plane survivor musician Charlie.

  • Matt

    @Dave – I don’t think that “Jughead” was involved in the Incident referenced in the Swan video. Remember, the Swan was about electro-magnetisim, not radiation. My guess is that the H-Bomb is degenerating so the radiation will eventually hit the special time-bending energy, which is what Hawking’s “God help us all” was about.

  • Chaddogg

    @beerbaron — I had the same thought. Charlie Hume = Charles Widmore. We even had foreshadowing of it, with Penny telling Desmond to promise her he would never go back to the island, and him saying “Why would I ever want to go back there?”
    .
    Perhaps Desmond DOES return to the island (breaking Penny’s heart AGAIN — by the way, THAT was a weird conversation in my opinion), little Charlie Hume becomes Charles Widmore, and “the game is played again and again” between Ben and Widmore.

  • namastizzle

    I liked this episode. The Lie did a good job in advancing character first and the plot/mythology second, here it was the other way round but both got a decent share. Aside from some technical issues (rifle-cam?) it was a very solid episode.

  • Dave

    @Chaddogg and beerbaron – At the very end of the episode, Penny says, “You’ll never forget it, Des. So I guess we’re going with you.” Does that mean she and Charlie are going to LA, or does that mean they’re going with him to the Island? Does she initially mean the former, but then in LA discovers that he has to go to the Island? I’ve been pondering a lot whether them having the baby and naming him Charlie is there as a feel-good moment or if it’s significant.
    `
    @beerbaron – I agree, but I just can’t shake Sayid’s Chernobyl line. Maybe the Others buried the bomb, and in the DI’s excavation of “special” places on the Island, they didn’t necessarily set the bomb off, but they opened up the radiation? It seems too convenient that Sayid would mention Chernobyl a couple seasons ago, and now there’s an H-bomb on the Island.
    `
    Now that we know that “Jones” is really Charles Widmore, it puts more stock in the theory that he cuts off Chang’s left hand. I’m still skeptical about it, since we see Chang rubbing his hand, but maybe he’s rubbing his hand because Daniel says, “Wait a minute… I thought you didn’t have your left hand.”
    `
    @jcrhoo – Re: Generational connections. In the huge LDG thread before the season started, I posted a (sleep-deprived) theory about connections between people, and that’s why these certain people are unstuck from the Island. I still like the theory, and the generational connections could potentially back that up.

  • chelseyl

    Has it bothered anyone else that Charlie and Charles Widemore have the same name?
    (Or, for that matter, John Locke and Jack Shepherd?)
    So is the woman in a coma the same angry girl with gun on island? Why do people think she’s Daniel’s mother?
    [Love the actress Ms Hawking. Plays the mother on the excellent Showtime show "Brotherhood"]

  • archstanton68

    regarding the H-bomb, if it hasn’t gone off after 50 years, it’s probably not ever going off. the Plutonium in those has a limited shelf life, after which it degrades enough to render it inert. my best guess is that it’s relevance is meant to expand the history of the island, and maybe drive home reasoning for the others protectiveness of the island.

  • mcmagnus

    Jack and Claire being siblings is sweet, and creates a cool family legacy in the overall mythology. Hawking being Faraday’s mother is pushing it, although I can accept it, and it could even make sense. BUT…I’m really hoping all this fan speculation about everyone being related doesn’t come to pass. I don’t want Locke and Sawyer to be brothers, I don’t want the Asian baby to be Miles, I don’t want Widmore to be Faraday’s dad, I don’t want Locke to be a grown up Aaron.

  • beerbaron
  • Tom Shaw

    Some brief comments, the obvious point first:
    -
    So not only is Ms. Hawking Daniel’s mum, but she also held him at gunpoint 50 years ago. Won’t that be an interesting Thanksgiving dinner!
    -
    On the other hand, that all the Others know Latin, and Hawking is apparently some sort of nun, makes perfect sense: If anyone is still likely to still have records of the ancient Island (and possibly Tunisian escapees), then it would be the Catholic Church – hence their necessity to know Latin, to read the ancient texts. Which could also explain Hawking’s history (and why Daniel speaks American, not British, English) – she’s been undercover in The Church to dig up info on The Island, and raising your kid yourself tends to be an easy giveaway that you aren’t keeping up with the old vow of chastity…
    -
    But I don’t understand why everyone is suddenly surprised Daniel’s research was dangerous. I understand why Desmond is suddenly concerned, but we the audience knew that Eloise The Rat died and, that by the time 815 crashed, Daniel was a whimpering nutcase. Conscious time traveling is known to be dangerous bordering on deadly – where is the surprise?
    -
    And I don’t understand why we are suddenly assuming Daniel is working for Widmore (yet we already know he was hired by Widmore!) – Charles figured out that Locke, etc. came from the future, and is funding anyone with research that could plausibly explain how. (We also now know why Abaddon encouraged Locke to take his visit to Australia, to finish that part of the loop.)
    -
    Speaking of which, we already surmised Charles was on The Island in the past – and I suppose we should have assumed that he would eventually be part of the Dharma controllers. But no one noticed the big thing about past-Charles’ showdown with Richard?: Sure, Richard responds when Locke namedrops Jacob, but no one else does. Yet again, all evidence points to the Others’ reverence of Jacob is because of the Room 23 tape, not the other way around.
    -
    And no one else thought the past was significant: That the US army happily scouts the Island, brings a nuke there, and all without constant pox, time traveling, or any of the other modern day ailments? Just like the baby pox, there is enough evidence to suggest that, while The Island has always been hinky, the 2004 level of weirdness is only due to the combination of Wheel, Nuke, & Dharma experimentation.
    -
    Speaking of which, as someone mentioned above with Sayid’s concrete quote, don’t we pretty much know what’s under The Hatch now? The leaky nuke turned into some form of power supply? Did the failsafe entirely convert Jughead into energy (the purple haze), or is it still under the Hatch ruins?

  • Dave

    @chelseyl – No, the angry girl with a gun on the Island is really Ms. Hawking, who is Daniel’s mother. His comment that she looks like someone he knew is a ruse to the audience – we assume he’s talking about the girl in a coma, but in reality, he’s talking about his mother. Or so the theory goes :)
    `
    @mcmagnus – The whole first season was pretty much dedicated to showing how characters are intertwined. Before the series is resolved, we will learn at least a little about why that matters. It only makes sense that part of that significance is the fact that some people are blood relatives. Locke and Sawyer aren’t brothers, but Miles being the Asian baby makes a lot of sense (though sense doesn’t necessarily make something true). Widmore being Faraday’s dad, if Ellie really is Ms. Hawking, makes a lot of sense, though it doesn’t have to happen by any means. To me, Locke being a grown up Aaron doesn’t make any sense at all… I haven’t heard the theory, but I’m sure someone has thought to fit :)
    `
    I’m not sure who initially floated the idea, but there were questions last week of whether Ms. Hawking is playing both Ben and Widmore to get the O6 back to the Island. Her potential past connection with Widmore may back that up, though that’s hardly the only possible scenario.

  • Tom Shaw

    Oh, and Charles Hume is not Charles Widmore. Ben holding a gun to Penny’s head is the reason why Desmond’s “Why would I ever go back there” will bite him in the ass.

  • http://www.nickcarnes.com ncarnes

    There is still one big question mark that came back up in this show that has not been answered and apparently pulls a lot of weight.

    Jacob.

    Locke mentions him to Richard and gets his attention. Who is Jacob? Why is he so significant on the island? What does he have to do with the time travel and with Richard, etc.? I am sure there are many more questions about Jacob that could be asked.

  • James Poniewozik

    @Tom Shaw: Speaking for myself, the revelation was not that Daniel’s research was dangerous, but that he was experimenting on humans. We knew he’d used mice, and I’d suspected–because of his evident memory loss and his state when 815 crashed–that he may have experimented on himself. Giving Theresa a one-way ticket to Crazytown is of a different moral order, though, and unless I’m forgetting something, we had not previously seen evidence he’d done that.

  • natego

    Ben wants nothing more than to kill Penny.. if he’s holding a gun to her head it will be to shoot her, not to get Desmond to go back, IMO

  • texgator

    @beerbaron, I think you might be onto something. I think the ultimate endgame of the show is leading to multiple time paradoxes (e.g. Charles Widmore is his own grandfather) that were created when Desmond originally failed to reset the clock causing Oceanic 815 to crash (the other possibility is that the paradox was created when Hanso and the Black Rock originally “discovered” the island). The only options then are to keep the feedback loop going or destroy the island with all of the original 815′ers plus a few others (Walt, Penny, Charles Widmore, Ben, Ms. Hawking) on it. If this is not done the fabric of space/time will be destroyed thus bringing about the end of the world. I’m not sure how any of this works although I’m assuming Daniel Farady will gladly explain that a large amount of energy (an H-bomb detonation) released near the source of the time paradox (the donkey wheel) will reset the time stream and restore the stability of the space/time continuum (that last sentence sounded way too Trekkie). I think we’re going to continue to find out there is a lot of interelatedness among the 815 passengers as they slowly come to realize that in the “pure” timeline none of them should actually exist.

    I’m sure there are a lot of holes in this theory but for now it is a working theory that I’m sure will be shot to hell after next week’s episode. Still enjoying the ride!

  • Matt

    I must stand corrected in my earlier argument that the bomb couldn’t be under the Swan — after Wikipedia-ing the matter, it seems that electromagnetic energy is indeed a byproduct of the H-bomb “process”… so yeah.
    .
    @Tom – we don’t *know* that Hawking is a nun. Last time we saw her, she was a jeweler. She could just as well be headquartered in the church/abbey/convent than “working” there.

  • archstanton68

    @ Tom Shaw – Speaking of which, as someone mentioned above with Sayid’s concrete quote, don’t we pretty much know what’s under The Hatch now? The leaky nuke turned into some form of power supply? Did the failsafe entirely convert Jughead into energy (the purple haze), or is it still under the Hatch ruins?

    I don’t think we can make that assumption. the hatch was all about the unique electro-magnetic properties of the island, and EM radiation is very different from the alpha and beta particles that a H-bomb would radiate. On it’s own, jughead shouldn’t have anything to do with the extreme electromagnetism. There is also the issue of when the hatch was built. it appears to be a DI-era project, which puts it in the 60′s or 70′s. that means that 10+ years passed after Faraday’s advice. that’s a long time to wait when you’ve got a damaged, leaking H-bomb. Jughead is looking like a bit of a red herring.

  • http://www.treytaylor.net/2009/01/29/i-lovehate-lost/ trey taylor » Blog Archive » I love/hate Lost

    [...] if you’ve already watched last nights ep, you should read this. 0 Comments Read [...]

  • Dave

    @Tom – Is it possible that the bubble around the Island was caused by the Incident? Daniel was talking about finding the right bearing, but if it’s pre-Incident, is there a bearing to find? I suppose we don’t necessarily know the US Army dropped down safe and sound. It could have been an accident.

  • archstanton68

    @ Matt – is the EM energy you’re talking about a by-product of an nuclear detonation, or a property of an unexploded bomb?

  • Dave

    I keep thinking of this when I read posts, then forgetting to post about it: I think the only time Constant Pox is lethal is when it involves the Island. Now that we’ve seen a comatose Theresa who appears to have a definite case of Constant Pox, though she doesn’t seem to be dying. Maybe it’s related to the DI Incident and the electromagnetic bubble put around the Island, or maybe what happened to her was a little different.

  • Chaddogg

    I just grabbed an interesting theory from reading the comments on the show from Alan Sepinwall’s blog (linked at right by James)…Alan wrote:
    “[There] was a story point in “The Time Traveler’s Wife,” where the couple keep having miscarriages because the fetuses inherited their dad’s time-travel power and would briefly disappear into the past or future and die outside the womb.

    But in terms of island time travel, it doesn’t seem to affect the native Others, and in terms of the consciousness travel, it usually doesn’t affect people until they try to go to or leave the island on the wrong bearing. So I don’t know if that’s a factor in all the failed Others pregnancies.”

    What if THAT is the significance of being conceived OFF the island? If a fetus AND its mother/father were all from OFF the island, you could jump WITH your mom inside the womb thru time — much as all the Losties stick together whenever a jump happens because they are all “linked” to the outside world.

    But if you were conceived ON island, you were more or less a “hostile or Other” due to that conception — meaning that you stayed put (like the Others did, since they disappeared while Locke jumped alone) while your mother jumped and eventually would die in utero?

  • natego

    Just a random question… does anyone know if Lost uses actual physicists as consultants for writing this show? I would have to assume so with such complicated subject matter…

  • antilles13

    To me, “Ellie” looked a lot like a younger Ms. Hawking. Didn’t look at all like Teresa. I’m with everyone thinking Hawking is the Mom, and I’m on board with Widmore being the Dad. But the whole Charlie Hume being Charles Widmore is a bit out there for me, but maybe it’s because when they showed the scene of him being born I thought to myself, Des should name him after Charlie Pace.
    (@mcmagnus – where did you see speculation that Locke is a grown up Aaron? We saw both of them being born, and, um, by two very different mothers…)
    -
    Did anyone else get the impression that Richard Alpert didn’t seem to like young Widmore very much? He seemed to snarl at him, talk down to him (“And it never occurred to you that they might follow you[, moron!]?” and that’s the first time I remember Richard calling someone by their last name (of course, that simply could have been so that we learned his identity). I’m thinking Widmore was in line to become “leader” and got passed over or something. There seemed to be some hostility there.
    -
    Locke no longer has the compass, right? Richard was holding it when they flashed away again?
    -
    I would have liked a scene where Sawyer questions Locke about the Others being “his people.” No response to that from Sawyer? Really?

  • antilles13

    @Chaddog – I don’t get your baby theory. The “Others” seem to be the only ones who don’t time-shift, so a baby conceived on-island wouldn’t, like the Others, be moving in time. That would mean the mom would be moving, but there was no indication the patients Juliet was treating where time-shifting. I’m confused.

  • mcmagnus

    @Dave,
    The whole relation thing just shrinks the world in a way I don’t like. I enjoy the intertwining of the characters, it implies a destiny-driven force that is nudging them to cross paths because they’re all chosen. But blood-relations can only be used a few times before it starts to lose meaning. (I know Locke and Sawyer aren’t brothers, I was just showing how the fan-speculation has always been drawn to this type of theory.) Widmore being Faraday’s dad, yes, could make sense, but again, it sort of reduces the mystique of both characters just a little (although I’m having a little trouble explaining that beyond my own personal preference). The Miles thing is a little different, mainly because I like the idea that the writers had a character in mind with no racial prerequisite, saw Ken Leung, and thought he would be a great addition. Trying to fit him into the role of Dr. Chang’s baby, whether before or after getting Ken Leung, kind of diminishes that in my opinion. I will say, though, that I love the idea of Widmore, (and possible Hawking) being Others from a long time ago, because it quickly and convincingly establishes them as characters with a lot of knowledge of what’s going on, a also gives insight onto their perspectives.

  • meg7

    Charles Widmore saw Daniel on the island as he was being led away by Ellie…….I wonder if he remembered Daniel later on Oxford….
    Also wasnt there a spark of chemistry between Ellie and Widmore when they discuss how Widmore and men were overcome, while Ellie returned with the ones she set out to capture….
    Richard visited young locke because Locke told him come visit me when I am born and told him the date before the flash…..When Richard visited Locke as a kid, I thought that question he asked was so strange but it makes sense now “Which of these things already belong to you”….Locke chose the sand jar (don’t know the significance yet), the compass and the knife…..the knife seemed to upset Richard….I wonder if he will cross paths with Richard on the island again while island is spinning and kill some one with that knife……..

  • natego

    Just realized Jin could also technically be Dr. Chang’s baby… timing would be right too

  • meg7

    As for jacob, he seems to be like Richard, as old as the island….I didn’t realise that no one else noticed or cared about Jacob but Richard did…..I wonder if Widmore even knows about Jacob….could be that Jacob was common knowledge among the others only when Ben became their leader….could have been kept secret by leaders before but Ben may have let everyone know who is incharge…
    Widmore’s men at the end of S4 knew Ben would go to the Orchid as a last resort but never came up in the middle of the jungle when he was searching for Jacob’s cabin….

    There has been mention of Ben being the exception in not meeting Richard when young but that is not true…he met Richard when he was running away from the Dharma camp and Richard told him to be patient and he would soon join them….

  • tenderfeet

    @texgator – I think you’re onto something with Jughead is still buried and part of some endgame events. To me it just doesn’t make sense to have the hatch be covering the bomb; wasn’t it stated that the button was to release pent up EM energy?
    .
    To me that suggests that once the hatch is destroyed, that energy is building again as part of the island, and could be on a collision course with now-buried Jughead resulting in a ‘God help us all’ when the island’s energy meets the H-bomb catalyst at some point. I guess that’s not as tied up as Faraday using it at some point to reset the timelines but they aren’t mutualy exclusive either.

  • jcrhoo

    Oh, let’s not start again with that business of Jin being Baby Chang.

  • shara says

    Mr. Shara Says and I both got VERY excited when it was revealed that Desmond and Pen had named the baby Charlie. OK, I’ll admit it, I totally teared up. How very beautiful. I do NOT think that the baby will get time-looped into being its own grandfather, but I do think that the baby will be somehow important to the story. I’m wondering if the child inherits any of Desmond’s “specialness”.
    .
    Re: the birth scene – I didn’t have a problem with it being included. I don’t care if its fundamentally important or not, there is so much action and information being packed into most Lost scenes these days, a throwaway scene here and there is a nice change. Plus, there are so many issues on this show involving pregnancy and childbirth, showing one that went well and resulted in a loving, united family (for now, anyway) was a nice contrast to others that we’ve seen (Locke’s birth, Ben’s birth, etc).

  • Dave

    @mcmagnus – Yeah, I see what you’re saying. I didn’t know that Miles wasn’t specifically cast to be Asian (or was that your own preference? There’s so much to read and take in, I probably skim a little too much).

  • Dave

    @shara – I also have been curious about the baby. How special will he be? He’s (apparently) the offspring of a time/space-special person and (apparently) the descendant of an Other leader.
    `
    Ok, I’ve been hesitating to get into this, but I suppose now is as good a time as any. It’s going to start as a rehash of things we went over in the past, but I think I’m taking it somewhere. When Daniel chose to talk to Desmond in the past, it looks like that wasn’t something that had already happened. Otherwise Desmond would have remembered it. It appears to be a genuine case of a new decision in Daniel’s timeline happening at a different time in Desmond’s timeline, but not coming to light until Desmond’s timeline was at the same place as Daniel’s. Does that imply that there are consequences to skipping across the record too much? If they skip for 10 years, then the O6 come back and meet them, the skippers would be 10 years older. So when they come back in contact with people they are closely connected to… what would happen to that connection?
    `
    `
    `
    Man, I love this show.

  • jcrhoo

    @Dave –

    I think McMagnus meant that he would be disappointed to find out that Ken Leung was only cast because Miles had to be Chang’s son. I agree — and more broadly, agree with his feeling that too many generational connections make the show feel smaller.

  • meg7

    Heyy guys…I just had this crazy idea…..what if when the O6 want to get back to the island, the island is in the DHARMA time period….would it be ultra cool if they had to disguise as DHARMA initiative people to come back…Ben’s knowledge would come in handy…and Daniel (whom they meet on the island) would go to the Orchid station to research on how to stop skipping…..he was the same appearance and age in that scene as now during the skipping and while Richard is ageless, I dont think Daniel is….

  • paulciske

    Daniel Faraday seems to be the professor on this island. Our expert on all things science related. So not only is he an expert in space-time but all knows how to deactivate a 1950s nuke. He’s a handy guy to have around. Great episode.

    I am thinking that Widmore becomes leader of the others and is deposed by Ben setting up the rivalry.

  • tactedresser

    i’m sure people already know this but, Ben told Locke that he could not return to the island during the Orchid scene in last season’s finale, so him returning to the island is out of the question. if Widmore was one of the leaders like others in this thread suggested, is it possible he did something similar and cannot return island himself?

  • http://www.simonvinkenoog.nl/beeld/Yogi%20-%20Annelies%20Rigter.jpg yogi

    @beerbaron, in regards to your baby Charlie becomes grandpa Charles, you haven’t happened to recently read Chuck Palahniuk’s novel “Rant” have you? ;-)

  • antilles13

    Totally separate question:
    When Ellie and her gang first chance upon Daniel, Miles, Charlotte, et al. by the creek, the scene ends with her saying something like, “You just couldn’t stay away, could you” – seeming to believe they were with the U.S. military. Maybe I’m wrong, but I got the impression that 1950s era ‘Others’ had driven the U.S. military away – off the Island. Yet the current-era ‘Others’ (led by Ben) seemed insistent that none of the Losties could ever leave. Why the change in strategy? Or am I reading too much into it?

  • Dave

    @antilles – you might be reading too much into it, but I’d guess they’d play it off that the Island didn’t need those people. They crashed accidentally, like Danielle’s folk.
    `
    Speaking of Danielle’s folk, could them being sick be radiation sickness? I don’t really think so, but the thought just struck me.

  • profdante

    Is it me or did it seem like Ellie was much more savvy about the outside world than Richard? This suggested to me that Richard is an Island Inhabitant (Original Flavor), while Ellie and Co. (dunno about Widmore) were brought there/came there as adults.

    Also, so apparently the US Army could set up shop on the island in the 50s, so I guess it wasn’t hidden by a electromagnetic haze at that point — that only occurs post-Incident I guess? Still, wouldn’t the USArmy have records of the island, then?

  • beerbaron

    @yogi: I do like Palahniuk’s stuff but I haven’t read that one. I’m kind of giving up on my own theory actually. I think the only way it works is if Widmore isn’t really Penny’s father, and there’s no reason so far to believe he isn’t.
    .
    @antilles13: I think Richard mentioned that they had to kill all the US military people, they didn’t just drive them off the island or let them leave. Although it does raise the question: assuming the military didn’t have a lot of trouble finding the island and bringing a nuke there, but Richard told Locke that how to leave the island was “privileged information” (did they even have the submarine at this point, or is he referring to following a bearing?).
    .
    I’m guessing this establishes the island’s location somewhere around the Bikini islands where the US did a lot of nuke testing in the 50s. I like that Jughead introduces an element of “real science” to balance the pseudoscience of time travel. I’ve been watching some H-bomb videos on Youtube and just scaring the crap out of myself. So glad I didn’t live through the Cold War. It’s just frightening that mankind got to the point where we created something that destructive. This was also part of the HBO series Carnivale — remember Ben Hawkins’ vision of the first nuclear test in New Mexico? — but sadly the show was canceled before we learned how it fit into the greater mythology.

  • antilles13

    @Dave- or maybe that the Island wanted the army gone since they were, um, trying to nuke the crap out of it. Maybe I should just think before I post. :)
    -
    Re: Danielle. I was kind of thinking the same thing, but her people didn’t get there until 30+ years later (1988 or so). I read somewhere this morning that Jughead would be inert by then (though I’m not smart enough to verify that). Either way, I think if it was radiation sickness it would have effected her too.

  • antilles13

    @beerbaron – that is a good question. I finished watching last night thinking the episode had answered a lot more questions than it raised, but every time I read the LDG I see a bunch of questions I hadn’t even thought of (and then end up thinking of even more). How the hell did the U.S. Army find the Island? But at least we know where the knife Ana Lucia got from Goodwin came from.

  • meg7

    @antilles
    I had completely forgotten about that knife….good memory
    Is it possible the US Army found the island the same way the DHARMA initiative did…the island has unique physical and biochemical properties….DHARMA initiative and the US Army both have a group of scientists….especially with the H-bomb now in the picture if they wanted to test certain properties maybe the scientists some how found the island……

    @tactedresser
    I remember Ben said that but in view of what all is happening I wonder if Ben lied to Locke. He may know that the island will dislodge in time and he may be in a better position off the island and try to get back there rather than spin with the island….
    I don’t take anything Ben says and does at face value….
    He told Jack he has a few ideas about how to get back to the island, he didn’t mention oh btw only O6 are going as I am not allowed back….

    I had one thought about Sun…it was mentioned in previous posts that she could be working with Ben to bring down Widmore….I think the opposite could be true as well…..She could be in cahoots with Widmore and pretend to work with the Ben…….get back to the island (Which Widmore has been trying to look for) and get her revenge on the people she thinks are responsible for Jin’s death…….I think this storyline would have good potential as her reasons for getting back to the island would be revenge and collaboration with Widmore but once there if she happens to see Jin is alive (I am sooo hoping he is not dead…I really liked them as a couple) she can change mid season……what do you guys think?

  • http://albamaria30.wordpress.com/2009/01/30/lost-day-jughead/ Lost Day: “Jughead” « Red Pen Mama

    [...] forget to check the pros and the wiki. They do synopsis and [...]

  • natego

    I have a suspicion that Widmore and Hawking are brother and sister. The way Widmore said “Shut Up, Ellie” when he came out the jungle just struck me as something an older brother would say to their younger sister..something in the way he said it makes me thinks this is true..

  • antilles13

    @meg- actually, my memory sucks, but just before this season started I went back and started from the beginning, and I just happened to get to “The Other 48 Days” a couple days ago.
    -
    @natego- I like that theory better than Widmore being the Dad. Makes more sense. (On a related note – if he was referring to Hawking, how did Widmore know she was in LA?)

  • bankerman61

    “Daniel Faraday seems to be the professor on this island. Our expert on all things science related. So not only is he an expert in space-time but all knows how to deactivate a 1950s nuke. He’s a handy guy to have around. Great episode.”

    Yes, but can he fix the radio? 8^)

    BTW, I find the use of the name Hawking interesting. A subtle reference to Stephen Hawking and Quantum Physics? Just like John Locke and Sawyer are historical/literary references.

    Bank

  • sunnysbud

    @antilles13 – Assuming Hawking is Daniel’s mother, that’s a really interesting point. Widmore knows Hawking is in LA… so they are in fairly regular contact, no? And she’s also working with Ben. Hmmm.
    -
    Also, Widmore said that she would not be pleased if Des came looking for her. Wonder why?

  • natego

    @sunny my guess is that probably that Desmond also needs to go back to the island in order for the plans to go through and she won’t be pleased to see that he’s not still on the island. (foreshadowed by Desmond’s “why would i ever want to go back there” line)

    Also, I don’t see why Widmore wouldn’t know Hawkings address even if they don’t keep in regular contact.. i know tons of people i don’t talk to often, but i still know where they live..

  • natego

    Also, i still think Richard is from Ancient Egypt.. his initials spell Ra (egyptian sun-god .. I also think the smoke monster is a reference to the egyptian mythological character Apep)

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